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Naoryunosuke
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 Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: What it takes to go to heaven |
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I was scrolling through a topic earlier that I stumbled upon in which a Christian girl was asking for advice to the fact her fiance is an atheist. The one bit that stuck out to me was when she said "If he doesn't believe in God he won't go to heaven". This reminded me of pascal's wager:
| Quote: | | If you erroneously believe in God, you lose nothing (assuming that death is the absolute end), whereas if you correctly believe in God, you gain everything (eternal bliss). But if you correctly disbelieve in God, you gain nothing (death ends all), whereas if you erroneously disbelieve in God, you lose everything (eternal damnation). |
Besides the fact that a person can't just choose to believe something, I can't help but notice the fact that people seem to believe that belief by itself is enough to reward you with eternal life in heaven. I was always told that leading a good life is what gets you into heaven, and since you don't need God to lead a good life then you don't need to believe in God in order to go to heaven. I'm surprised that most people don't notice this discrepancy |
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SvZurich
Loki's Little Valkyrie
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Well, according the that book you are saved by the following.
1. Faith alone.
2. Works alone.
3. Faith and works.
4. Neither faith nor works (predesitination).
And Xians wonder why we can't believe their damn book. Sheesh.
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Naoryunosuke
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| SvZurich wrote: | | And Xians wonder why we can't believe their damn book. Sheesh. |
Heh, yes that's quite true. I think if I found myself before God and he said to me "why didn't you believe in me?" I would give the reply that Bertrand Russell said he would give, "Not enough evidence God, not enough evidence". |
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
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Location: Cin City, OH!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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1 Corinthians 15:22
| Quote: | | for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. |
Okay, so it's everyone?
John 3:16
| Quote: | | For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. |
Oh. Gotta believe in him.
Romans 2:7
| Quote: | | to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honour and immortality, he will give eternal life; |
...and/or do good works...
John 3:5
| Quote: | | Jesus answered, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. |
..and get baptized, and apparently also drink some moonshine.  |
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isixylixsis
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Believing that someone else did what was necessary to make it to heaven.
Every human being realizes this in some way or another, it's called imperfection.
For the religious hypocrites, God gave Jesus so that they would not have any advantage over common people.
So Jesus died to shut up Jewish hypocrites. Having lived entirely by faith, NO WRITTEN LAW can codify Jesus' own standard.
That is called faith. An unwritten standard that is acceptable to God almighty.
No one will stand on judgment day and say,
"See, I wasn't as bad as that person."
All will be judged with the same rule they judged all others with. |
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Shiranu
WTF IS ME?!?!!!111!!
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Isixylixsis, you really believe that, dont you?
Crazy.
How any one can put blind faith in something that is illogical, improbable, impossible, intollerant and is intrepidly homophobic, contradictary and down right moronic is beyond me.
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"Hold me now I need to feel complete...Like I matter to the one I need...I'm so afraid of the gift you give me...I don't belong here and I'm not well. I'm so ashamed of the lie I'm living, i'm right on the wrong side of it all...and I so ashamed of this...yes I am so ashamed of me" Seether - The Gift |
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HxC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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so isixylixsis, my cousin jackie was born mentally retarded due to the umbilical cord being wrapped around her throat.
will she understand that unwritten law as well, or go to hell for not believing?
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jdopus
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| isixylixsis wrote: | Believing that someone else did what was necessary to make it to heaven.
Every human being realizes this in some way or another, it's called imperfection.
For the religious hypocrites, God gave Jesus so that they would not have any advantage over common people.
So Jesus died to shut up Jewish hypocrites. Having lived entirely by faith, NO WRITTEN LAW can codify Jesus' own standard.
That is called faith. An unwritten standard that is acceptable to God almighty.
No one will stand on judgment day and say,
"See, I wasn't as bad as that person."
All will be judged with the same rule they judged all others with. |
Where exactly do you get the idea that jesus died to get back at all those Jewish hypocrites? I thought he was supposed to die so that people could be forgiven for their sins?
Oh, so no written law can codify Jesus' standard?
So...therefore the bible can't...yet it claims to?
Does this mean that it is fallible? that it is lying?
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Wickedtruth
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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A fundie dies, goes to heaven
::From up in heaven the fundie laughs at the billions of souls in hell::
Fundie starts laugh at the people in hell "Haha, told you so, you should have believed in our all compassionate and ever merciful father! You had your chance sucker, a whole 10-60 years in all of eternity to figure it out!
Fundie feels a little sadness..."Hey GOD...couldn't you have at least offered the most slightest evidence of your existence so that so many people don't end up in hell?"
GOD: NO! ::Sends that fundie to hell:: |
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isixylixsis
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jdopus wrote: | | isixylixsis wrote: | Believing that someone else did what was necessary to make it to heaven.
Every human being realizes this in some way or another, it's called imperfection.
For the religious hypocrites, God gave Jesus so that they would not have any advantage over common people.
So Jesus died to shut up Jewish hypocrites. Having lived entirely by faith, NO WRITTEN LAW can codify Jesus' own standard.
That is called faith. An unwritten standard that is acceptable to God almighty.
No one will stand on judgment day and say,
"See, I wasn't as bad as that person."
All will be judged with the same rule they judged all others with. |
Where exactly do you get the idea that jesus died to get back at all those Jewish hypocrites? I thought he was supposed to die so that people could be forgiven for their sins?
Oh, so no written law can codify Jesus' standard?
So...therefore the bible can't...yet it claims to?
Does this mean that it is fallible? that it is lying? |
The bible is a record of Israel and their horrible failure at trying to get the world to accept their religious dogma in spite of their blatant hypocrisy.
"Uh, Egypt, we know we said we hate Assyria's God's, but there was this one we kind of liked so he's in our temple. But you still have our God's wisdom so could you keep us safe from Assyria again?"
And Jesus came and said, "Stop trying to keep God's law!"
Jesus showed that anyone who followed Israel's law perfectly
WOULD DIE BY THAT VERY SAME LAW.
God showed religion for what it is.
If you follow it, it will turn on you.
Besides, with God right beside you and willing to give you what you ask for (in clear intent, not saying, "Give me this" when you mean, "Give me this because it has this and that and that." JUST SAY, "God! Give me a wife who gives the best oral sex!" Don't play pious and say, "God give my soul rest with a help meet.") |
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isixylixsis
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Wickedtruth wrote: | A fundie dies, goes to heaven
::From up in heaven the fundie laughs at the billions of souls in hell::
Fundie starts laugh at the people in hell "Haha, told you so, you should have believed in our all compassionate and ever merciful father! You had your chance sucker, a whole 10-60 years in all of eternity to figure it out!
Fundie feels a little sadness..."Hey GOD...couldn't you have at least offered the most slightest evidence of your existence so that so many people don't end up in hell?"
GOD: NO! ::Sends that fundie to hell:: |
Hell?
All I know is that whatever standard you place everyone else under,
That same standard will bear down with the same severity upon every willful act.
And ignorance is forgotten.
But the heart will be revealed. So what you did and you said, "Well, it's not really that".
It is.
Where there is no Jesus, there is "How did you live by the standard you judged everyone else by."
Basically, if you cut with the sword, it will cut back.
Eternal hell?
Dont' know.
Judgment?
Yes. |
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isixylixsis
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | Isixylixsis, you really believe that, dont you?
Crazy.
How any one can put blind faith in something that is illogical, improbable, impossible, intollerant and is intrepidly homophobic, contradictary and down right moronic is beyond me. |
How anyone can not avoid judgment day by humbling themselves and saying, "I think you're a fucking load of rocks shit God, but I believe you will have the final say on my last day. And before that happens, I'm going to plead for mercy now. Because even though I hate you, and all you stand for, I know you are merciful to those who hate you."
Is beyond me. |
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jaycorath
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Joined: 05 Sep 2004
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Local time: 11:34 AM
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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I love questions like this, because even christians can't agree. Why? Just ask Kim 
| Quote: | [quote="SvZurich"]Well, according the that book you are saved by the following.
1. Faith alone.
2. Works alone.
3. Faith and works.
4. Neither faith nor works (predesitination).
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I'm gonna go with #4! 
[sarcasm]The worst of them all is #2. What's that? If you do nothing but good works you can get into heaven? That is so fucked up! What a horrible, horrible, horrible idea.
[/sarcasm]
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Celebrant: Forgive us, Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying.
Congregation: And bare-faced flattery.
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Naoryunosuke
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| How about you stop putting words in our mouths. First of all we don't hate god we simply don't believe in him, secondly if there is a god and it is anything like the god of the Bible then quite frankly I'd rather go to hell. If I wanted to be preached to I would go to church every Sunday. |
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