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Castaa
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 Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: What is the penalty for dying an atheist in Judaism? |
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What is the penalty for dying an atheist or agnostic in Judaism?
What reason would an adherent of Judaism give for not being an atheist?
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Castaa
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Judaism is surprisingly vague on the afterlife? No wonder it lost out.  |
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redraiderdude187
The Madcap Laugher
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Castaa wrote: | | Judaism is surprisingly vague on the afterlife? No wonder it lost out. |
Judaism originally, didn't even have an after-life, they thought that if you lived a good life and abided by the Torah then you would live for a very long time. That's why when the New Testament mentions Hell in any Hebrew or Aramaic sense, the word is "sheoul" meaning grave. The Jews didn't even have the idea of an afterlife until they were in Babylonian Captivity and were influenced by their religion (Zoroastrianism I think, but don't quote me on that.)
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antonivs
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Castaa wrote: | | Judaism is surprisingly vague on the afterlife? No wonder it lost out. |
I think the requirement of circumcision was another factor that made it less attractive to potential converts.
Christianity and the Mithra cults were easier to join.
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Azrael
Celestial Teapotist
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| antonivs wrote: | | Castaa wrote: | | Judaism is surprisingly vague on the afterlife? No wonder it lost out. |
I think the requirement of circumcision was another factor that made it less attractive to potential converts.
Christianity and the Mithra cults were easier to join. |
Wait, Christianity doesn't require circumcision? Dammit, another scar by religion I have suffered! 
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lumpymunk
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Antonivs, your avatar is fantastic.
I stole it.
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antonivs
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: | Antonivs, your avatar is fantastic.
I stole it. |
Thanks much.
That's ok. I stole it too.
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Uncertainty
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I thought if you were good you got in to heaven whether an atheist or not?
At least I think someone who followed judism on here before told me that. |
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FlatEarth1024
Hey, Everybody!
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| antonivs wrote: | | Castaa wrote: | | Judaism is surprisingly vague on the afterlife? No wonder it lost out. |
I think the requirement of circumcision was another factor that made it less attractive to potential converts.
Christianity and the Mithra cults were easier to join. |
I can definitely understand that...
"Oy vay! Dey take a snip off my schmekel and I don't even get into heaven?!! Oy! I think I'll go see that Jesus fella. He seems like a reasonable young man!"
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Redraiderdude... are you sure you're signaturequotation is correct? Something tells me the following correction is nessecary:
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking against the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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antonivs
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Uncertainty wrote: | I thought if you were good you got in to heaven whether an atheist or not?
At least I think someone who followed judism on here before told me that. |
He might have been basing that on the saying from the Talmud:
“righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come.”
Jews believe that they are responsible for observing 613 commandments,
while Gentiles only have to follow seven "Noachide" Laws. So, according to
the Talmud, it is easier for Gentiles than Jews to be considered righteous.
These Noachide Laws prohibit Idolatry, Murder, Theft, Adultery, Blasphemy, Cruelty to Animals, and require a system of justice be established.
Judaism has had various beliefs on an afterlife over the centuries. Originally all the dead went to Sheol (the grave). Later in Talmudic times, a belief in "World to Come" developed. Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism include a belief in reincarnation.
Most Jews I know do not believe in an afterlife.
I saw an opinion poll once that 6% of Reform Rabbis are Atheists and 12% are Agnostic. I once heard a Rabbi tell his congregation that no one knows what happens when you die.
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It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the Coca-Cola that the thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
Last edited by antonivs on Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Uncertainty
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| The rule against blasphemy seems kind of silly since it's for people who don't believe in their god :O |
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antonivs
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Uncertainty wrote: | | The rule against blasphemy seems kind of silly since it's for people who don't believe in their god :O |
Yes, you are exactly correct. From a 21st century mindset, blasphemy is a very silly crime, especially for non-believers.
To understand the mindset of the people who formulated the Noachide Code, you have to remember that these are Talmudic interpretations of Iron-Age documents, based on Bronze-Age myths. At the time these myths were first being formulated, the neighboring tribes believed that Yahweh, the god of the Israelites existed, but they just preferred worshipping their own tribal gods, such as Ba'al, Molech, Chemosh, Qaus, etc.
People in those days were basically henotheistic. They believed that all the various gods existed, but each tribal group generally had their favorite, almost like a patron saint. So, if one of these people insulted the touchy thin-skinned god of the Israelites, he could easily incur this god's wrath.
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It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the Coca-Cola that the thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. |
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tonyman1989
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Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| antonivs wrote: | | Castaa wrote: | | Judaism is surprisingly vague on the afterlife? No wonder it lost out. |
I think the requirement of circumcision was another factor that made it less attractive to potential converts.
Christianity and the Mithra cults were easier to join. |
Hello antonivs
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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
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"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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antonivs
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| tonyman1989 wrote: | | antonivs wrote: | | Castaa wrote: | | Judaism is surprisingly vague on the afterlife? No wonder it lost out. |
I think the requirement of circumcision was another factor that made it less attractive to potential converts.
Christianity and the Mithra cults were easier to join. |
Hello antonivs |
Greetings tonyman1989. I think we share a first name, albeit in different languages.
I really like the Richard Dawkins quote in your signature.
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It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the Coca-Cola that the thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. |
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