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louiswin2
Royal Citizen
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 471
Local time: 12:35 PM
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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| not_a_theist wrote: | that they believe this:
all together now children:
Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God get quite irate
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I love Monty Python! I never could grasp their humor in my xian days. I guess it took a jolt of the un-holy spirit for me to appreciate their humor, especially regarding religion. |
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 6611
Local time: 6:35 PM
Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Specus_Meretricis wrote: | | I find that insistance for agreement annoying as fuck from both camps, but I am not sure if anyone understands that when you act like the only way your belief, argument, point of view, ect is going to stay alive if only I agree with it...well that doesn't say much for it's strength now does it? |
So I'm born into this world. Never had a say in the matter.
Then I find out this world involves theism. Never signed for that either; sure didn't cause it.
Not having chosen any religious "camp", I'm considered as part of another "camp". Great!
Finding out many theists have this totally warped idea of what I'm like (hardened heart, lacking a motive for morality, that kinda shit) I feel the need to set a record or two straight. And the only way I can explain why there's nothing weird or objectable about me refraining from theism, is by explaining my reasons for doing so, which inevitably equates critisizing theism.
So now I'm told I shouldn't play the pushy evangelist's game, and not just by theists. Ain't that a peach.
What I find most anoying about evangelical Christians (and their counterparts in other religions) is the position they force me in, and the way their perception of me is warped in particular.
Not many, Specus, sees the need for pushing back, which just might be why those who do see that need cater to it as strongly as they do.
_________________
~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code. |
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BobSpence1
Moderator
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 2022
Local time: 3:35 AM
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I concede its not worth trying to convince most believers that they should change their ideas to match mine. Apart from anything else, that would conflict with my basic POV that I can never be certain that I might not be wrong,. In fact I am certain that much of what I currently take as 'working assumptions' on reality is probably wrong to some degree.
What I would like to get thru to the more absolutist Theists is that they really have no greater justification for their beliefs than I do, at the very best, and in many cases demonstrably less. I would like them to see their viewpoint as just one option among many others, not necessarily more or less legitimate than ours.
I don't go to the opposite extreme and assume all viewpoints are to be assumed equally valid or worthy of respect either, that is even more insane.
The point is that I would want them to concede is that they really need to get used to the fact that there are other ways of looking at the world, and one needs something more than naive confidence in their own judgement to evaluate which one is more or less worthy of respect, whether the 'other' is a another religion or no religion.
_________________
"To a committed free-thinker, blasphemy is not a crime but a duty" - me
"I believe that when I die , I will rot" - Bertrand Russell
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
Favorite oxymorons:
Business ethics
Gospel truth
Rational supernaturalist
Last edited by BobSpence1 on Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 6611
Local time: 6:35 PM
Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| BobSpence1 wrote: | I concede its not worth trying to convince most believers that they should change their ideas to match mine. Apart from anything else.
What I would like to get thru to the more absolutist Theists is that they really have no greater justification for their beliefs than I do, at the very best, and in many cases demonstrably less. I would like them to see their viewpoint as just one option among many others, not necessarily more or less legitimate than ours. |
I doubt there's more than a neglegtable few who would advocate anything beyond stirring tongues, hopefully breaking open to discussion what could've and likely would've otherwise been beyond reproach: our convicictions. And -who knows- dismantle a prejudice or two.
For instance; there's been negative feedback about the Rational Responder's blasphemychallenge (which I proudly contributed to, as a token of moral support to those who -shockingly enough- often have a closet to come out of in this regard) even from other non-theists, but meanwhile they landed themselves some airtime to complain about how it's generally deemed okay to hate atheists. Negative attention, for the time being, is the best they can hope for, and RRS and Mr Flemming know that all too well.
Talk. Just wanna talk.
_________________
~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code. |
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Specus_Meretricis
Peddler of Bombast
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 2754
Local time: 1:35 PM
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Jutter wrote: | | Specus_Meretricis wrote: | | I find that insistance for agreement annoying as fuck from both camps, but I am not sure if anyone understands that when you act like the only way your belief, argument, point of view, ect is going to stay alive if only I agree with it...well that doesn't say much for it's strength now does it? |
So I'm born into this world. Never had a say in the matter.
Then I find out this world involves theism. Never signed for that either; sure didn't cause it.
Not having chosen any religious "camp", I'm considered as part of another "camp". Great!
Finding out many theists have this totally warped idea of what I'm like (hardened heart, lacking a motive for morality, that kinda shit) I feel the need to set a record or two straight. And the only way I can explain why there's nothing weird or objectable about me refraining from theism, is by explaining my reasons for doing so, which inevitably equates critisizing theism.
So now I'm told I shouldn't play the pushy evangelist's game, and not just by theists. Ain't that a peach.
What I find most anoying about evangelical Christians (and their counterparts in other religions) is the position they force me in, and the way their perception of me is warped in particular.
Not many, Specus, sees the need for pushing back, which just might be why those who do see that need cater to it as strongly as they do. |
The name of the thread is "What annoys you most about Evangelical Christians?". I took the 'YOU" to mean "ME" and not "How does Specus's opinion on something directly confound Jutter's opinion on something?". That is what annoys ME. I don't care if it annoys you or not. It doesn't involve you at all. I never have and I never will respect or understand anyone that needs popular support to justify anything. Again, there is nothing in that opinion that involves you at all Jutter, so stop looking for offense. |
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
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Local time: 6:35 PM
Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Specus_Meretricis wrote: | | so stop looking for offense. |
My apologies. I'll avoid you, or anything that could be construed as relating to your posts from here on. Sounds drastic, but after years on boards like this you're the first person ever I'm appearantly rubbing the wrong way like this, and I'd hate to ruin the AF experience for you.
'sure you mean well, so be well.
_________________
~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code. |
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Jason_Harvestdancer
WonderMod Powers ACTIVATE!
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 2410
Local time: 9:35 AM
Location: Northern LA County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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What annoys me about evangelicals, fundamentalist, etc.
They have no theologians. Then again, if they did, they wouldn't be what they are.
They don't know the first thing about thinking about their own faith.
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Nos laetus edo qui votum opprimo nobis.
LakeGeorgeMan actually think's I'm Socrates.
Visit my wife's art gallery |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12826
Local time: 9:35 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Playing the victim, while actively trying to oppress all other beliefs and lifestyles.
_________________
Namaste,
CET 
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12826
Local time: 9:35 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| J_Lazarus wrote: | What annoys me most about some evangelical Christians is what annoys me most about most drooling, fanatical atheists: unwavering, nauseating, and blatant stupidity.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not a very bright lightbulb myself. The more I strive to learn and educate myself the more I realize how ignorant I am. But god damn, it seems like so many people across the board in both communities are just plain stupid. And the worst possible accompaniment to that is that all of the stupid people are the ones that are the most cocksure.
[/elitism]
- JL |
Ego
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12826
Local time: 9:35 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrissyFos wrote: | | Christians have such a hard time dealing with the truth, so they redefine it. They lie. They speak for god as if they are god. God doesn't like this, god doesn't condone that, god doesn't want us to do this or god is unhappy about that...and you know this how? |
Because they're a Christian and you're not. If you are a Christian and still disagree, then you're not a "true Christian". 
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12826
Local time: 9:35 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| rickcopeland648 wrote: | It's simply the entire activist package. I don't think I can distill one element.
I've stated in the past that one thing I enjoy doing is taking evangelical arguments against homosexuality and substituting "homosexual" and "homosexuality" with "Christian" and "Christianity". The results are amusing. I shall do so now:
"I have nothing against Christians, but do they have to advertise it?"
That best sums up my attitude... |
Yes, word replacement are fan-freakin-tastic for cutting to the quick of what an argument REALLY is.
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12826
Local time: 9:35 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| hillbillyatheist wrote: | | the fact that they think it's persecution to not allow them to impose their views on everyone else. |
*groan* 
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12826
Local time: 9:35 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| redraiderdude187 wrote: | | My main issue with most evangelicals is how turn a blind eye to science, unless it benefits them. They will tell you all about how this world couldn't be around without a creator and recite all of this information about the earth's tilt and distance from the sun, the human eye, etc; but they refuse to even listen to arguments for evolution or the Big Bang. Evangelicals refuse to realize that if they use science to prove certain points of their faith, then they shouldn't pick and choose which science to use and which to not use. To all evangelicals: about evolution, I promise you that all of us atheists and scientists gather at a "Let's Bring Down Christianity" conference every year, the scientific evidence against your religion is NOT fabricated. I couldn't care less about disproving your religion and I bet most scientists don't care either. So get a grip. |
They're used to picking and choosing. Did you think that would stop when they closed the Bible?
| redraiderdude187 wrote: | And another thing that bothers me about them: that absolutely wretched music they listen to! I can barely take it sometimes... it makes me sit there with this look on my face  |
Remember the "Lame Music" thread?
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12826
Local time: 9:35 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm caught up now! 
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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ChrissyFos
Lobal Dominatrix
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 5315
Local time: 12:35 PM
Location: Here, There and Everywhere
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | | redraiderdude187 wrote: | | And another thing that bothers me about them: that absolutely wretched music they listen to! I can barely take it sometimes... it makes me sit there with this look on my face |
Remember the "Lame Music" thread? |
The thread that ended up being about Pink Floyd?  Actually, you've reminded me of a Christian artist that I've been listening to lately named Sufjan Stevens. From what I've heard so far, his music is pretty decent, especially "Chicago". Just in that one song, he incorporates horns, an organ, xylophone, a synth, violin and a choir. His lyrics are kinda "bleh" but the overall sound isn't that bad.
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This space is reserved for inarticulate meat puppets who have no true perspective outside the refuge of quotation marks.
Reverend Mother
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