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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
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 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Of course it's hate speech, but the first amendment protects even "hate speech."
There's no way on earth this ruling is going to make it through the whole appeals process.
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tonyman1989
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | | but the first amendment protects even "hate speech." |
Really? I thought it protect everything but hate speech.
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Jane Austen
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | Of course it's hate speech, but the first amendment protects even "hate speech."
There's no way on earth this ruling is going to make it through the whole appeals process. |
I'm hoping a precedent can be set about free speech at funerals.
Also, plaintiff can definitely can argue that Westboro Baptist were intentionally causing emotional pain to the family.
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I think that I shall never smell
a poem as pugnant as a hell
where grinning devils turn the screws
on Saintly Sikhs and Upright Jews
Giving them the holy scorcher,
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Poems can make you want to yell,
But only God can give you Hell.
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Uncertainty
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: |
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I think it's funny people get sued for saying comments to people of the opposite gender, but these people who go to funerals and say god killed peoples family members on purpose and is good for doing it are A okay!
I'm also surprized no one has freaked out and beat them up yet, death doesn't even bother me that much unless it's someone very very close and seeing them would still piss me off a lot. |
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 3800
Local time: 10:26 PM
Location: Cin City, OH!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| tonyman1989 wrote: | | Eyedunno wrote: | | but the first amendment protects even "hate speech." |
Really? I thought it protect everything but hate speech. |
| Quote: | | Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. |
Tell me where in there you see "hate speech." Yeah, they can argue that the Felches were trying to cause emotional harm, but they're going to have a hard time proving that, because they have the word of the Felches that it's just "Bible preaching." The argument that the Felches are guilty of child endangerment is an interesting one, and the one that seems to me to have the best chance of sticking, but it's totally irrelevant to this case. Civil rulings do have lower standards than criminal rulings, but I still seriously doubt this ruling will make it through the appeals process (and I hope it doesn't, because I believe that even professional trolls have rights). |
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hillbillyatheist
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Joined: 29 Jun 2004
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Location: Denver Colorado.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:02 am Post subject: |
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its harassment.
they can hate "faggots and fag-ass soldiers" all day long for all I care.
let this dinosaur and his puppets dance all they want.
but they don't have the right to disrupt funerals with their garbage.
that is an invasion of privacy and harassment.
hate speech has got nothing to do with it, imo. |
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Gerard
Nemesis (archly so)
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:03 am Post subject: |
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The Westboro's were sued for defamation, invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress. I suppose the rationale of the court has been that speech issues don't come in to it.
Gerard
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romans120
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | | tonyman1989 wrote: | | Eyedunno wrote: | | but the first amendment protects even "hate speech." |
Really? I thought it protect everything but hate speech. |
| Quote: | | Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. |
Tell me where in there you see "hate speech." Yeah, they can argue that the Felches were trying to cause emotional harm, but they're going to have a hard time proving that, because they have the word of the Felches that it's just "Bible preaching." The argument that the Felches are guilty of child endangerment is an interesting one, and the one that seems to me to have the best chance of sticking, but it's totally irrelevant to this case. Civil rulings do have lower standards than criminal rulings, but I still seriously doubt this ruling will make it through the appeals process (and I hope it doesn't, because I believe that even professional trolls have rights). |
Personally I understand where you are coming from so that other free speech civil cases arn't affected, but I hope the judgement sticks. I think you atheists have a closer relationship to God then Phelps. You probably spend more time in your Bibles than he does. You probably care more about what the Bible says than he does. All he does is use the church as platform to make himself important and spew out his depraved opinions. Anything that will shut him up is a good thing.
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Uncertainty
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| I think his depraved opinions just happened to match up with what he saw in the bible. |
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
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Location: Cin City, OH!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | You probably care more about what the Bible says than he does. |
Eh? I actually think Phelps has pretty solid Biblical understanding, better than a lot of TV preachers anyway, and he's fairly consistent too. The thing with Phelps is, he has this agenda that's based on this one thing that only appears a few times in the Bible, and his "church's" lack of common sense is amazing. Like, God is targeting the U.S. for tolerating gay people, but then why do countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, etc. have a lower average life expectancy than the U.S., in spite of not tolerating homosexuality? And then there's this:
| romans120 wrote: | | All he does is use the church as platform to make himself important and spew out his depraved opinions. Anything that will shut him up is a good thing. |
Yeah, in the end, I'm pretty sure his church is primarily a vehicle for attention and self-promotion above all. Which is why just about everybody in the media except for, of all people, Bill O'Reilly (and his father the devil  ) seems to be handling him wrong. |
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baddogma
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Free speach is a right, but we have other rights as well. And those rights were violated. There is a place and a time. There should be a bubble of privacy and a designated place to protest.
I hope the Phelps go down hard! they are worthless to society, hateful, nasty evil people that bring nothing but hate and misery to society.
You gotta hand it to them though...they stick to the bible.
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Jane Austen
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I know they want attention, so I hope the $11 million they're now going have to pay the family (assuming it isn't overturned) will do the trick.
$2.9 million (compensatory) + $8 million (punitive) = Hahaha fucktards
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JANE
I think that I shall never smell
a poem as pugnant as a hell
where grinning devils turn the screws
on Saintly Sikhs and Upright Jews
Giving them the holy scorcher,
timeless, transcendent torture
Poems can make you want to yell,
But only God can give you Hell.
-Phillip Appleman |
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romans120
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Posts: 2033
Local time: 6:26 AM
Location: The God Shaped Hole in Your Heart
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | You probably care more about what the Bible says than he does. |
Eh? I actually think Phelps has pretty solid Biblical understanding, better than a lot of TV preachers anyway, and he's fairly consistent too. The thing with Phelps is, he has this agenda that's based on this one thing that only appears a few times in the Bible, and his "church's" lack of common sense is amazing. Like, God is targeting the U.S. for tolerating gay people, but then why do countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, etc. have a lower average life expectancy than the U.S., in spite of not tolerating homosexuality? And then there's this:
| romans120 wrote: | | All he does is use the church as platform to make himself important and spew out his depraved opinions. Anything that will shut him up is a good thing. |
Yeah, in the end, I'm pretty sure his church is primarily a vehicle for attention and self-promotion above all. Which is why just about everybody in the media except for, of all people, Bill O'Reilly (and his father the devil ) seems to be handling him wrong. |
No if he understood his Bible he would be talking to the gay community not protesting. Christ was critizied all over the Gospels for hanging out with ones that society despised and rejected if he cared what the Bible taught he would follow that example. Also this whole idea of God supernaturally judging nations today is bad theology from a dispensational approach (arguably the most literal approach)
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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SvZurich
Loki's Little Valkyrie
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Depends on if he gives more credence to the Old Testement/Torah (which he does) or the New Testement/Torah Unauthorized Appendix (which he does not).
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romans120
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| SvZurich wrote: | | Depends on if he gives more credence to the Old Testement/Torah (which he does) or the New Testement/Torah Unauthorized Appendix (which he does not). |
Did he make this statement? Because if he did why on earth does he call his church - Baptist. There lots of differant kinds of Baptists but they usually agree on the "The Baptist Distinctives" all of which are based on NT concepts
Save you some wiki time
B Biblical authority
A Autonomy of the local church
P priesthood of the believer
T Two Ordinances (everybody else calls them sacriments)
I individual Soul liberty
S Saved membership
T Two offices
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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