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emo samurai
Black Messiah
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1373
Local time: 6:51 AM
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 Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Jutter wrote: | | emo samurai wrote: | Okay. Here's the deal.
Might, and only might, makes happen. This is obvious.
atheod takes this one needless step further by saying that might makes right, JUST TO PISS US OFF.
We should ignore this stupid fuck. |
If those are indeed your sentiments, then may I suggest you follow your own advise.
On the other hand...
He's voiced this "might makes right" opinion before, but you weren't around yet then, and you also haven't been around long enough to know how pisspoor your judgement in this case is. Maybe you need more rather than less exposure to Atheod's posts.
I might tease the guy by saying shit like "Atheod is to atheism is what chocolaty goodness is to chocolate", and I barely even bother to try and reason with him, but I must admit -along with Moloth- that Atheod is no prankster and he is always polite. Kindly cut slack accordingly. |
I never say that he isn't polite; I simply think he's a sophist. In other threads, it seems like everything he said was an attack on empiricism. If we said there was no God, then he would say that we can't prove it. If we said that we'd believe in God if our arms grew back, then we couldn't prove it was God rather than space aliens with healing lasers. If we say that we'd accept proof, then that proof is not sufficient, and if we say that there isn't proof, then he says that it isn't disproof. The more we fail to prove His existence, the more he argues for His existence, and vice versa. This is the opposite of good reasoning, and he uses it A LOT.
He's polite in the way an Enron lawyer is polite.
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Those who don't believe in evolution haven't benefited from it.
I didn't outsmart you; you outdumbed me.
It is a human right to profit from the stupidity and arrogance of others.
Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere is happy.
--Henry Mencken |
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Raggle Fraggle
Smells Chiiiicken
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 1028
Local time: 7:51 AM
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if this has been mentioned yet (I don't want to read through so many pages), but I always think of the book of Leviticus for Christians. That's where one of the verses about homosexuality is that Christians love to recite. But, near it is the kosher food laws and all the other silly laws that Christians don't follow. If humans can't decide morality for ourselves, how do we know how silly those laws are?
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Could you repeat that? I think I had something crazy in my ear. |
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Missionary
Guest
Local time: 9:51 PM
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Raggle Fraggle wrote: | | I don't know if this has been mentioned yet (I don't want to read through so many pages), but I always think of the book of Leviticus for Christians. That's where one of the verses about homosexuality is that Christians love to recite. But, near it is the kosher food laws and all the other silly laws that Christians don't follow. If humans can't decide morality for ourselves, how do we know how silly those laws are? |
If morality is relative, how could a line be drawn between self-desire and sociopathy if ones desires and pleasures are derived from antisocial behavior? |
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Wickedtruth
Forum Master
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 2087
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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If one was certain that the law couldn't catch them, should one fully self indulge in pleasure at another's expense?
My logic is pretty intense, and disturbs even my fellow atheists.
My friend's always say "no dude, that's fucked up?". Why I ask? "It's wrong dude..." they say.
Why? Because it "feels bad"? Logic is my master, go worship Jesus with those "Feelings".
"Dude, don't you care about altruism and the greater good?".
No...why? Soon I will expire out of existence and so will any futile efforts to help any other people soon to expire.
"Aren't you moral at all?
Save your morality. I will expire soon. So will everybody else. It's a moot point. Pleasure and pain are just transient signals to our brain before passing.
"There has got to be something wrong with you".
Give me a scientific reason. No silly shit. In the grand scheme of eternity, even the millions of people Hitler killed mean nothing. They expired just like everyone else will. It's an unavoidable fate. You cannot hide from expiration.
"Dude, you're wicked".
It's only the logical truth. A very Wicked truth.
Gaaaahh..what's wrong with me??? I feel weird saying shit like this, but this is only where my logic leads me too...even my fellow atheist's find me disturbing :/
Can somebody with very strong logic skills help me out here? I can't find a logical reason why not to fully self indulge in pleasure, even at the cost of others. Because we all end up expired in the end. "Feelings, altruism, vagueness" don't satisfy my mind  . Can anybody give me a logical, scientific reason why it's wrong for me to fully enjoy myself and exploit others? |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
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Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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To start with, because, in the grand scheme of things, the grand scheme of things also means nothing.
So why are you taking that perspective?
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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Wickedtruth
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | To start with, because, in the grand scheme of things, the grand scheme of things also means nothing.
So why are you taking that perspective? |
There is no grand scheme. We all expire. |
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Philosophos
Do it
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Wickedtruth wrote: | | There is no grand scheme. We all expire. |
So what?
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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Wickedtruth
Forum Master
Joined: 09 May 2008
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Local time: 6:51 AM
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Wickedtruth wrote: | | There is no grand scheme. We all expire. |
So what? |
Exactly. That is why it is ok to seek self pleasure at other's expense.  |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Wickedtruth wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | Wickedtruth wrote: | | There is no grand scheme. We all expire. |
So what? |
Exactly. That is why it is ok to seek self pleasure at other's expense. |
Is/ought fallacy.
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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Wickedtruth
Forum Master
Joined: 09 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: |
Exactly. That is why it is ok to seek self pleasure at other's expense. |
Is/ought fallacy.[/quote]
Your monumental intellect confuses me. Can you dumb it down for me? |
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Wickedtruth
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| I think I am just evil. God's impress me not. |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
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Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Wickedtruth wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | Is/ought fallacy. |
Your monumental intellect confuses me. Can you dumb it down for me? |
Mmmm... maybe I'll wait for zeroth-order elimination to work it's wonders...
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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Wickedtruth
Forum Master
Joined: 09 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Not getting away that easy Philosophos!
Can you provide me hard concrete evidence that I am not a dick? Is my logic flawed? They all expire. I want a scientific/logical answer why I should care about other's who poof away into oblivion. Why should I care about other human beings? We all end up expired in the long run. |
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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 7247
Local time: 3:51 AM
Location: Next door.
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| atheod wrote: | | emo samurai wrote: | | atheod, you are discussing morality as if it were not only subordinate to might, but inextricable from it. That means the entire concept of morality does not exist as its own concept, and therefore meaningless. |
I've found that morality as it's own concept is rather meaningless.
Telling others what they ought to do is meaningless without the power to make them do it somehow, be it by the pen, the sword, or whatever. |
Therefore SUGESTING that meaning fallows from "power", is totally useless, seeing as meaning can change, but power doesn't necessarily have to, and vice-versa. You haven't thought this through very well.
Do you wish to debate this with me?
_________________
"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to
be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it
is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be
dispensed with."-- Niccolò Machiavelli |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
Local time: 7:51 AM
Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Wickedtruth wrote: | | Not getting away that easy Philosophos! |
Sigh... I understand why Knight responds the way he does more and more every day.
Get back to me when you can explain what logic and science have to do with ethics. And what those two things actually are.
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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