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Philosophos
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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 Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | I say tolerate him a little longer, unless he continues to avoid my posts  |
Jeez, he may be the typical drone, but aren't you asking a little much of him by wanting him to reply to you? I mean, we're into discussion here, not torture!
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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Missionary
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Local time: 6:33 PM
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | | I say tolerate him a little longer, unless he continues to avoid my posts |
I'm 2 pages back...I'm answering almost every post. I'll get here if the hammer don't fall first.  |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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You're very patient, Missionary. I'll give you that.
We do have a one-on-one section if you want to have a more in-depth discussion with somebody here.
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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Shiranu
WTF IS ME?!?!!!111!!
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 3150
Local time: 3:33 AM
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | | Shiranu wrote: | | I say tolerate him a little longer, unless he continues to avoid my posts |
I'm 2 pages back...I'm answering almost every post. I'll get here if the hammer don't fall first. |
My bad then, thought you were replying to newer posts.
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I support the Ejército Zapatista de Liberación Nacional (Zapatista Army of National Liberation), EZLN - "ˇYa Basta!" ("Enough is Enough!").
"There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless — boys and women — and I am neither one." -Greek saying |
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Missionary
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Local time: 6:33 PM
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | I was trying to assume the best of Missionary, but it is rather obvious this man is a troll (or just a typical theist). Constantly, when rather chalanging questions come up, instead of answering them, he slides away, "OMG Guys, like... I dont know what it means, so show me what it means, bla bla..."... your the one calling us out, I think if you want to continue, a little work on your part would be nice.
Along with that, when ever he gets a chance he has to go on a speil about how we are going to hell, and then plays ignorant (or perhaps honestly is, but once agian, if you dont understand the rules, look them up, not sit on your ass and continue to break them out of "ignorance").
So, yeah... im gona have to pull out the troll card along with KNOB. |
Let me know what you want cleared up. I can only relate what's in the Bible. I can't just make up some answer for God because it sounds good. The only reason I don't post bible verses is because I know atheists hate reading them. However, my answers are essentially paraphrasing verses or explanations of bible passages.
I'll answer any question I know the answer to. |
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Shiranu
WTF IS ME?!?!!!111!!
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 3150
Local time: 3:33 AM
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Shiranu wrote: | | I say tolerate him a little longer, unless he continues to avoid my posts |
Jeez, he may be the typical drone, but aren't you asking a little much of him by wanting him to reply to you? I mean, we're into discussion here, not torture! |
/bruised ego
_________________
Cheap, Sweat Shop-Free T-Shirts, ranging from Political to Ecological topics.
http://www.bant-shirts.com/index.htm
I support the Ejército Zapatista de Liberación Nacional (Zapatista Army of National Liberation), EZLN - "ˇYa Basta!" ("Enough is Enough!").
"There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless — boys and women — and I am neither one." -Greek saying |
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Citizen X
Forum Plebian
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 185
Local time: 3:33 AM
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm opposed to banning missionary.
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He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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Amberli
<Something Profound>
Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 482
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Location: San Bernardino, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't understand why someone would choose to have another dictate his life. Be it another person, or a deity, you are still placing yourself under someone else's "rule". Why do that? Do you not have confidence in yourself, and your ability to live a good, moral life? Must you restrain yourself from immorality by following some...thing? Do you honestly believe that a god, such as you "worship", really takes the time to change your life? Or mine? Or that he will send us to a flaming pit for eternity if we do not kiss his feet, and belittle ourselves and fellow humans in his name on a regular basis?
I have a hard time figuring out why anyone would subject themselves to this kind of eternal dominion..with absolutely no assurance that it was even real.
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I smile because I don't know what the hell is going on.
Life is not about what happens to you. It's about how you fucking DEAL with what happens to you
Every guy here has an amazing relationship with his penis, almost like a friendship. |
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MockingGods
Joined: 13 Nov 2002
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | | I can only relate what's in the Bible. |
Expand your horizons, relate something more interesting 
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Atheism... Evolving beyond superstition
Proud to support seti@home |
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Missionary
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: |
How is it predetermined? I determined before I determined? Nonsense. The problem here is your refusal to answer a simple question. Instead of answering honestly you decide to dodge it completely saying that the notion is only concieved in my imagination but through your own rhetoric you admit the inanities of the Christian God. Your logic is self defeating and it is quite hilarious. |
Okay...You want to know if an all powerful God can make a rock that He can't lift. Correct? Honestly, Your question is like asking, "what number is one more than infinity?"
1)First, the bible says that God is a Spirit. Sometimes the bible says something like "the hand of God" or "His strong right arm" However, God does not have physical limbs. He is a Spirit.
2)God is all powerful. We call this omnipotence. Omnipotence (by definition) does not include the ability to do things that are, by definition, impossible. Neither does omnipotence include the ability to fail.
3) Therefore God possesses "all" power (every bit of it...there is none left to possess). This "power" is not intended to indicate or portray that God is similar to Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is not working out or anything. Neither are there physical attributes used to lift, stand, or run.
4) God "speaks" matter into existence and by His will the universe is shaped. God is not working at a pottery table with clay and building a diorama or hotrod model.
5) Because 1-4 is true? The question is illogical. God is The all powerful Spirit who speaks creation into existence and shapes it by His will. He cannot create a god more powerful than He because He possesses all power already. This is not a limitation of God but rather a description of the infinite and all encompassing size of His power. |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
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Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Missionary's right in this case, Rask. The "rock conundrum" is nonsense.
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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Bardolph86
Forum Plebian
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Could god have created a world in which everybody knew Jesus as their savior before dying? |
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Missionary
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Local time: 6:33 PM
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Raggle Fraggle wrote: | | Missionary wrote: | | Raggle Fraggle wrote: |
Why doesn't god just kill Satan? You know? Stop the virus at its source instead of making the infected suffer. |
He will [Rev 20] The purpose of all this is a choice. It most likely has to do with Lucifer's choice to rebel in the first place. |
God could have stopped Satan instead of allow him to corrupt humanity. He had the knowledge and the power. It's that simple. |
All we know from scripture is that something happened in heaven. Lucifer rebelled. He along with 1/3 of the angels got tossed out. We also have a conversation in the book of Job where Lucifer challenges God that the only reason Job is faithful is because God has blessed Job. Lucifer suggests that if God removes the blessing, Job will curse God.
From that, theologians speculate(because it's not spelled out in the bible) that the war in heaven had to do with something along these lines. That the only reason the angels obey is because they see God, hear Him, know He creates, know His power. They suggest that Lucifer proposes to God that if the angels had a true choice of free will to decide between good and evil, sin or obedience, that they would choose sin. Thus earth was created to set up the circumstances where a choice could be made. Man chose sin. Satan thinks he won the bet. But God is merciful and offers a complete pardon if man chooses by faith. Now the war is over the sould of men. The choices have to made. This temporary life is simply a waiting room we use to choose. Eternal life will begin once all the choices are made. Death, sin, lucifer, hell will all be destroyed after the judgment. Eternal life will be free from evil and everyone in heaven will be there because they wanted to be there by free will choice. |
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Missionary
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Local time: 6:33 PM
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | | Missionary wrote: | | Raggle Fraggle wrote: |
Why doesn't god just kill Satan? You know? Stop the virus at its source instead of making the infected suffer. |
He will [Rev 20] The purpose of all this is a choice. It most likely has to do with Lucifer's choice to rebel in the first place.
| Quote: | | It may not be caused by god, but it certainly doesn't make him mad enough to prevent it from happening. If you have the power to prevent something bad from happening, it is your responsibility to stop it. Remember with great power comes great responsibility (and webbing). |
Consider, the whole host of heaven lived in the presence of God. They saw Him, saw His works and Creation. His power from the Throne. Satan wanted to be God and receive worship. With that in mind, read Job 1 and 2 and check out satan's conversation with God. |
Wait... so say Rev 20 is right. Let me try to write out a story for you to try and understand this....
There is a man, he is a decent man, never did anything bad, sides maybe curse or w/e on a rare occasion. So, one day, he contracts cancer. Its a treatable cancer, cancer of the nose. He goes to the hospital, and they say "Ummm, yeah, we cant treat it atm, we are busy." So, obviously, he is outraged! But, he goes to other hospitals, and they all seem indiferent. So, time goes on, and he loses his nose, his face, and later his life. Then, years after he has passed away, his familiy gets a call and says, "Hello, Mr. Nosecancerdude, we can treat you now!".
Basically, what you say is that god could help humanity now, but he refuses to. THEN, once every one is dead and in hell, burning for... well, there is no way to measure what a hell-year would be, it could be infinity, and could be a second, who knows?... a long time, decides to help them.
WHY does he willing let people suffer? He is a good god, is he not? That is what you people say, is it not? Yet time and time agian, evidence points to nothing short of a judgemental, sadistic, ego-tripping bastard who gets a hard-on off of the suffering and failings of man kind.
(Story and second part trademarked under Shiranu® Inc. ) |
The purpose is to present an environment where people have the ability to make a genuine choice. The cancer in your illustration can also serve as an illustration of what sin does to mankind. Sin destroys lives and brings death. God allows suffering for a temporary time in this life in order for us to come to the realization that we too (like God) HATE sin, disease, death, hate, prejudice, hurt, war, killing, lies, murder, pedophiles, cheats, and everything else that sin creates.
God wants us to HATE sin and the affects of sin. But man has come to HATE each other and God. This kind of hate is from Lucifer. He will be destroyed in the end. So will death, disease, and sin forever. |
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Missionary
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Local time: 6:33 PM
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Citizen X wrote: | | Missionary wrote: | | Azrael wrote: |
I can't speak for him, but I'm not my god. I'm my own master in some respects, I generally do what I want to if I'm free to do it, but to say that I'm my own god is ridiculous. I don't worship myself, and to assume that atheists worship themselves is idiotic. Some do (LeVeyan Satanists I think would be an example of this, since they don't really believe in Satan or God), but a lot don't. |
I don't mean that you build an alter to yourself and slaughter sheep. You said, "I'm my own master in some respects, I generally do what I want to if I'm free to do it" is essentially the same thing. You consider you first above all others. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying you're a self centered jerk, I'm saying that people tend to answer to no man and no god but blaze the path of their own destiny themselves. This is in stark contrast to someone like myself who is guided and directed step by step of God. |
Correction. You are guided and directed, step by step, by what you perceive to be god. The problem is, it's all in your head. Your revelation of god wasn't revealed to you by god. Your revelation of god was revealed to you by your own doing, in your own head, and completely based on the pre-conceived knowledge of what the people around you have accepted to be their god. You have received no enlightenment. You have gained no "real" knowledge. You have simply accepted the beliefs of those around you by assuming certain emotions, dreams, and feelings that you have experienced was this god that they told you about. Prove me wrong. |
You have not collected CAT scans, MRI's, chemical analysis of my brain, measured electrical impulses, observed, verified, prepared a model, tested your model, or formed a control group and conducted a double blind test. So at best you have a weak opening statement for an abstract. |
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