Simularities between Jesus and other "saviors". Tr

Jex · Visitor Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 1 Local time: 3:19 AM

I've heard claims that the story of Jesus is similar to other myths that predate Christianity. I once saw a video on this very subject but a Christian I know sent me this link:

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho1.html

Which apparently seems to dismiss such claims. I'm trying to get to the bottom line on this on whether the Jesus story is entirely original or if similar stories existed prior to it. If you have evidence of stories existing prior to it make sure you present your source as something valid not speculative. I've seen many sites with lists of similarities yet they provide no actual accounts from the original texts.

Sal1981 · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject:

How ironic.

The "sources" in that sites are by and large by Christian apologetic books, and not scholarly books referencing the actual original text, but merely echoing the opinions of the authors that, not surprisingly, support what they went to look for. In short, it's quote-mining.
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Eyedunno · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject:

On this issue, there's a lot of questionable material from both sides. You have Christians who will categorically deny any resemblance to any other religion (presumably under the assumption that if their religion is unique, it's more likely to be true), and on the other side of the coin, you have atheists who, for whatever reason, seem to consider the idea that Jesus never existed to be important, and uncritically cite any fringe text they can get their hands on to support their case, along with constructing wild, convoluted arguments to point out analogies with Christianity fucking everywhere.

sjc

Demiurge · Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:10 am Post subject:

Hi,

It is correct to say that there is nonsense put forth on both sides. That being said, there are undeniable similarities between the stories of Jesus and the stories of pagan heroes and gods who far predated him.

The most striking parallels are those between Jesus and the gods worshipped in the Mystery cults surrounding the Egyptian god-hero Osiris, and his parallels Attis, Dionysus, Mithras, etc. Also there are parallels with the older heroes, who are often virgin-born, die and later resurrect, walk on water, etc. A good place to look for a compilation of these parallels is the book "The Jesus Mysteries" by Freke and Gandy. That being said, there is, I think, a lot of shoddy stuff in this book too (they often, for example, use parallels between Jesus and the Mystery gods which only developed after the New Testament was written, and which don't therefore support the idea that the testaments lifted material from the pagans). In the end, it is sort of an exercise in 'Gnostic Apologetics'. But nonetheless, there are some interesting points in the book, which make it worth reading.

The benefit of the book is that it compiles in a simple way many of the strange coincidences, but also spends some time discussing the moral teachings of Jesus, and their sources in earlier pagan philosophy.

If anyone has another book along these lines, with perhaps a more rigorous academic basis, I would really appreciate a post about it. I am very interested in this topic, and want to read as much as I can...

friendlyrevelation · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:56 am Post subject:

The virgin birth is an interesting reoccuring mythological theme.

Hercules was born of a union between a human woman and Zeus and there are legends surrounding the birth of Alexander as related in Oliver Stone's film.

CHFleming · Intern Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 82 Local time: 6:19 PM

From the virgin birth to the last supper, there is no one element of the Jesus mythology that is original. What you do have to be careful of is picking and choosing. You can take 10 different stories about Krishna and make him match up almost 1:1 with Jesus. But you could have taken a different 10 stories and make them look completely different.

Certainly I don't have to source for you the story of Perseus. Zeus impregnated his unmarried mother while in the form of a golden shower. So there you go, a well known virgin born demigod.

The most overlap comes from Mithra. Anahita was Mithra's mother and her very name means immaculate (she was a perpetual virgin (there is no mention of if Mary was a perpetual virgin or just a regular virgin)). All the stuff on Mithraism goes back at least 200-300 years before Jesus.

So there's two things so obvious and well known, that I shouldn't have to cite them, which is good because I am too lazy. If you want a big book with lots of sources, then I guess you should look to Acharya S.

Unbeliever · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject:

Here's an interesting book that can be read online:

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors - Kersey Graves
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Eyedunno · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject:

Demiurge · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:56 am Post subject:

Yah, funny that the very link you gave includes a link to Richard Carrier's bloody, unmitigated drubbing of that work. Ironically, the passion in this drubbing makes me want to read it anyway... Smile

CET · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:41 am Post subject:

People are all pretty much wired up the same way, and have the same internal archetypes. It makes sense that we would have common themes in our mythologies.

The divine child. Every new parent (who isn't a completely messed up individual) views their newborn baby as a "golden child".
The sun rises every day, and pushes away the dark of night which predators hunt in. The sun feeds and warms us. The sun is truly "our savior" and "our salvation".

These are just a few examples that leap to mind.
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Unbeliever · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject:

mikeledo · Joined: 12 Sep 2003 Posts: 46 Local time: 6:19 PM

The reason why the myths are similar is because they derive from the same cosmic myth.

Cultures had slight differences in their constellation identification, this resulted in changes from one myth to the next. In addition, when cultures were conquered, they would alter their myth, so a new story would be created or amended. This is what happened with the Old Testament. I have made and published a detailed study of the OT cosmic myth which should be an Infidel Guy radio topic next month.

Shameless plug:

http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=993434

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