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jaycorath
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Joined: 05 Sep 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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.sdf
_________________
"I love and treasure individuals as I meet them; I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to" -George Carlin
Celebrant: Forgive us, Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying.
Congregation: And bare-faced flattery.
--Monty Python's The Meaning of Life |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
| gnosis wrote: | | It is the democratic process and public scrutiny that is the "guarantee". |
How's that working out? |
Great actually. Compared to every government before it in history, I would say ours is pretty damn good. Our standard of living ain't bad, either. Don't get me wrong, things are by no means perfect. Unfortunately perfect is impossible though, as long as human beings are fallible.
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Joined: 08 Mar 2003
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Local time: 2:50 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| gnosis wrote: | | It is the democratic process and public scrutiny that is the "guarantee". |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | How's that working out? |
| gnosis wrote: | | Great actually. |
Really? So the whole looming police state and gutting of the Constitution means that it's working great? The elimination of habeas corpus is something great?
What fucking planet are you from?
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
Really? So the whole looming police state and gutting of the Constitution means that it's working great? The elimination of habeas corpus is something great?
What fucking planet are you from? |
Once again, you focusing on only the negatives and none of the positive aspects. Like I said, yes, there are problems. Always have been, and most probably always will be. Not because of "government", but because of human beings.
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Joined: 08 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | Really? So the whole looming police state and gutting of the Constitution means that it's working great? The elimination of habeas corpus is something great?
What fucking planet are you from? |
| gnosis wrote: | | Once again, you focusing on only the negatives and none of the positive aspects. |
Once again, you're trying to dismiss the negatives and wish into existence some positives.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
Once again, you're trying to dismiss the negatives and wish into existence some positives. |
LOL... you and I have both got it better than the vast majority of human beings on this planet, and you're telling me I'm "wishing into existence positives"?
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Once again, you're trying to dismiss the negatives and wish into existence some positives. |
| gnosis wrote: | | LOL... you and I have both got it better than the vast majority of human beings on this planet, and you're telling me I'm "wishing into existence positives"? |
The house slave had it better than the field slave, but they were still slaves.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
The house slave had it better than the field slave, but they were still slaves. |
Quit whining. It's unbecoming. How can you possibly compare the lives we live with slavery, the slavery that Africans endured in this country?
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"Agnostics: Atheists without balls." -Stephen Colbert
Last edited by gnosis on Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | The house slave had it better than the field slave, but they were still slaves. |
| gnosis wrote: | | butthurt whining |
Quit whining; it's unbecoming.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
Quit whining; it's unbecoming. |
You're the one claiming to be a slave. Am I supposed to feel sorry for you or something? Sorry, no dice.
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Local time: 2:50 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Quit whining; it's unbecoming. |
| gnosis wrote: | | You're the one claiming to be a slave. |
We're all slaves to whatever government we live under.
You really need to throw off your mental chains. Your body may be theirs, but your mind doesn't have to be.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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gnosis
Forum Master
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
We're all slaves to whatever government we live under.
You really need to throw off your mental chains. Your body may be theirs, but your mind doesn't have to be. |
If we take the place of government, then we are the government. Somebody's gotta do all the work they do: military, police, fire department, infrastructure, etc.. Whatever you replace government with IS government because it's doing the government's job.
All you are simply proposing replacing "public" government with "private" government. Either way, it's still government.
It isn't just "government", but what type of government that's important. Government can't be "eliminated", it can only be reinvented or redefined.
If government is "coercion", government can never be eliminated because coercion will never be eliminated. It's either public coercion or private coercion. That's just the way it is with humans. We coerce each other, sometimes "force" each other to do things. That's society.
Improving our situation on this planet isn't about eliminating "force", it's about changing who is forcing who to do what.
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"Agnostics: Atheists without balls." -Stephen Colbert
Last edited by gnosis on Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:47 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe someday humans will progress to the point that force is no longer present in our species. Until that day we will "need" government.
Force should be used as a last resort of course, but it is invariably used by human beings. The only way to respond with force is force in order to survive.
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Local time: 2:50 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | We're all slaves to whatever government we live under.
You really need to throw off your mental chains. Your body may be theirs, but your mind doesn't have to be. |
| gnosis wrote: | | If we take the place of government |
We don't.
| gnosis wrote: | | then we are the government. Somebody's gotta do all the work they do: military, infrastructure, etc.. Whatever you replace government with IS government because it's doing the government's job. |
Blatant question begging: you're presuming that such things proper are the job of government without ever having demonstrated it. Further, you're committing a flagrant non sequitur.
Listen: if, from time immorial, all restaurants were government-run, and then suddenly they weren't, would that make being a restauranteur "being the government"? No, of course not. So shut the fuck up, ignoramus.
Give up while you're way the fuck behind.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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gnosis
Forum Master
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 2375
Local time: 3:50 AM
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
Blatant question begging: you're presuming that such things proper are the job of government without ever having demonstrated it. Further, you're committing a flagrant non sequitur.
Listen: if, from time immorial, all restaurants were government-run, and then suddenly they weren't, would that make being a restauranteur "being the government"? No, of course not. So shut the fuck up, ignoramus.
Give up while you're way the fuck behind. |
What are you a Vulcan with Tourrette's Syndrome?
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"Agnostics: Atheists without balls." -Stephen Colbert |
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