| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Nimitz
Guest
Local time: 10:55 AM
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: ‘secular nation’ |
 |
|
firstamendmentcenter.org
What part of ‘secular nation’ do we not understand?
Inside the First Amendment
By Charles C. Haynes
First Amendment Center senior scholar
09.16.07
While American soldiers fight to establish a secular democracy abroad, many Americans want to create a Christian nation at home.
Consider the findings of “State of the First Amendment 2007,” a national survey released this week by the First Amendment Center. Significant numbers of Americans express support for government sponsorship of the majority religion, especially in public schools:
58% want teacher-led prayers in schools.
43% endorse school holiday programs that are entirely Christian and devotional.
50% would allow public school teachers to teach the Bible as a “factual text” in history classes.
Despite the fact that all of the above are unconstitutional under current law, many people see nothing wrong — and much right — with school officials privileging or even endorsing the Christian faith.
Transpose the location (or substitute another religion) and the result would surely be very different. Would Americans support the creation of an Iraqi state where the majority Shiites imposed their prayers, religious celebrations, and scriptures on all Iraqi schoolchildren? Not likely.
On the contrary, we send young Americans to fight for an Iraq where people of all faiths will be protected from state-imposed religion. Why? Because we understand that (however quixotic the quest) only a secular democracy in Iraq with no established faith will guarantee religious freedom — and end sectarian strife.
Closer to home, however, many Americans seem to think our Framers had another idea. According to the First Amendment poll, nearly two-thirds of Americans (65%) agree that our nation’s founders intended the United States to be a Christian nation. Even more striking, 55% believe that the U.S. Constitution establishes a Christian nation.
Now, it’s true that many (but not all) of our founders were Christians. And it’s true that the Protestant majority dominated the nation’s institutions for much of our early history. But the U.S. Constitution nowhere mentions God or Christianity, an omission that was widely criticized in 1787.
In fact, the only mention of religion in the body of the Constitution (before the addition of the religious-liberty clauses of the First Amendment) is the “no religious test” for public office provision of Article VI. By ensuring that people of all faiths or none could hold office, the founders made clear their intention to found a secular republic committed to full religious freedom.
Of course, people define "Christian nation" in various ways — ranging from a nation that reflects Christian virtues to a nation where the government promotes the Christian faith. But under any definition, the Constitution in no way establishes or creates a Christian nation.
Some might argue that teacher-led prayers or Nativity pageants in public schools are a far cry from the dangers of a Shiite (or Sunni) theocracy in Iraq. Perhaps. But the lesson of history is that when a majority uses the government to promote the majority religion, conflict and oppression inevitably follow.
That brings me to the most disturbing finding of the First Amendment Center poll: 28% of Americans believe that “freedom to worship as one chooses” was never meant to apply to religious groups that the majority of the people consider “extreme or on the fringe.”
At various times in our history, that would have meant no religious freedom for Baptists, Roman Catholics or Mormons. Today it would deny liberty to any number of small or unpopular religious groups.
Fortunately, our founders understood that the great danger of majority rule is majority denial of fundamental human rights. That’s why they wisely put some rights — religious liberty first among them — beyond the reach of majority vote.
The United States is not now and never has been a Christian nation in any official or legal sense of the term. It is precisely because we live in a secular democracy with First Amendment protections that Christians — and people of all faiths — have more freedom to practice their religion here than anywhere else on Earth.
Charles C. Haynes is senior scholar at the First Amendment Center, 1101 Wilson Blvd., Arlington, Va. 22209. E-mail: chaynes@freedomforum.org.
=========================================================== |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
|
Isambard
Forum Leader
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 892
Local time: 7:55 PM
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
I cringe every time I hear some lameass say that atheism has hijacked what once was a 'christian nation'.
Honestly, everytime someone says that, they should be arrested for conspiracy and slapped across the face with a fish
It should be a law or something
_________________
Composite things are like dreams. Fantasies. Bubbles. Thoughts. Like a dewdrop and a flash of lightning. A new dress and a burning tire. Waves of sand and sinking ships. The shadow of a statue, and an entry in a diary. A brain tumor and an ice cream sundae. We are thus to be recorded. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nimitz
Guest
Local time: 10:55 AM
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good idea! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12842
Local time: 4:55 PM
Location: SoCal, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think we should allow The Bible to be taught in schools, look what it did for England. What's their non-theist population, 50%+ ?
_________________
Namaste,
CET 
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ivan_Ivanov
Administrator
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 3942
Local time: 2:55 AM
Location: Poland
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rickyroma jumping in to bitch that most of them are new-agers in... 3... 2... 1...
_________________
It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nimitz
Guest
Local time: 10:55 AM
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hmmmm you may have something there CET.
RickyRoma where are you?! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sal1981
Do you hear me now?
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 2799
Local time: 12:55 AM
Location: Behind the computer
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is what I've been telling ya people. In Scandinavia, the Lutheran church is state religion and for all practical purposes, more than half of the people are atheistic.
_________________
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman
"Why not just make your null hypothesis be that..." - Philosophos |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RyanDzundza
Sock Puppet
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 5250
Local time: 12:55 AM
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i heard recently that some religious schools have started teachin *sigh* intelligent design as fact in science classes in britain now, although thye still have to teach darwins theory of evolution which do you think the teacher will be more enthusiastic about, intelligent design is the worst religous idea ever concieved
scientology has also made it over the pond to britain which i find quite worrying but i doubt religion will ever really take off in britain big time again since the only religous people in britain at the moment are muslims and even the younger muslims are more likely to be atheist now
i went to a cathlic school and i didnt know any one who openly admitted any belief in god lol
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Live Video and Chat Room
Freethought Videos
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
