Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 113 Local time: 12:07 AM Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: Religion in the work place.
I work as a customer service technician at a major cellphone carrier (that's where a B.A. in English will land your dreamy-eyed ass if you're not looking to become a teacher).
Anyways, a co-worker got on me about saying "Happy Holidays" to a customer as opposed to "Merry Christmas." This was the first time I'd ever been approached on something so trivial so I didn't know how to react. I've known this person to be a VERY religious christian fellow but, in general, a good guy. When he heard me say "Happy Holidays" as opposed to the Christian salutation, he was almost offended. He was a bit upset to say the least. He asked me to the backroom
First he asked if I were Jewish. I said no. He then asked if I celebrated christmas. I said "kind of" before he cut me off and said "Well then it's 'Merry Christmas' to celebrate the birth of our lord, Jesus Christ." I was going to tell him my family celebrated it only as a cultural day in 21st century america w no religious undertones. (In fact, my dad and I tend to refer to it as Festivus citing the famed Seinfeld episode. I almost refuse to say christmas anymore.)
Anyways, I shrugged the incident off. I thought I made it clear I was an atheist early on when I transferred to this store but decided not to ruin his holiday by having him acknowledge the presence of an unbeliever. After new years, I may make it a point to let him know by reading one of my atheist books inside the store at lunch as opposed to out in my car as is my usual habit.
While I'm not worried about the incident itself, does anyone feel this was an appropriate reaction at the work place or was it a form of discrimination? If the latter, did I respond well or should I have been more assertive in my lack of belief? _________________ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 6598 Local time: 1:07 AM Location: Pale Blue Dot
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject:
He shouldn't have pulled you aside like that, and it probably would qualify as a form of harassment, but I think you handled it well and should just let it go, unless he pushes his religion on you again.
At that point, maybe you could fuck with him and tell him that you're a satan-worshiper and invite him into your cult. _________________ "If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?"
Carl Sagan
The Atheist Forums Rules Summary: Just play nice, mmkay?
Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 4658 Local time: 6:07 PM Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject:
When he asked if you were Jewish, I would have just said YES.
I've done it before.
They hate that, having to be nice to those god-killers. Damn Hitler anyway. He ruined anti-semitism for everybody. _________________ K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 937 Local time: 3:07 AM Location: Clearwater,Fl.
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject:
If "Happy Holidays" was stated to a customer that seems quite appropriate as customers come in a wide variety. What if the customer does not celebrate Christmas? You showed restraint by not reacting to the confrontation and perhaps that is more than your fellow worker deserved. _________________ The path of least resistance and least trouble is a mental rut already made. It requires troublesome work to undertake the alternation of old beliefs.
-John Dewey
Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 2141 Local time: 3:07 AM
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Religion in the work place.
Bukaj wrote:
Anyways, a co-worker got on me about saying "Happy Holidays" to a customer as opposed to "Merry Christmas."
Co-workers aren't authority figures, so the situation automatically isn't as bad as if your Boss were forcing you to do it.
...which I guess is a positive, if you were looking for one.
Quote:
This was the first time I'd ever been approached on something so trivial so I didn't know how to react. I've known this person to be a VERY religious christian fellow but, in general, a good guy. When he heard me say "Happy Holidays" as opposed to the Christian salutation, he was almost offended.
He has no right to be offended.
1) You weren't talking to him.
2) If he gets offended every time he hears someone with a differing viewpoint, he's going to stay offended his whole life (which, to me is a gratifying thought).
Quote:
First he asked if I were Jewish.
His first reaction was, "Oh man that fucking JEW over there just said Happy Holidays instead of,
"I suck Jesus Dick Yes I do
I suck Jesus dick how about you!"
If his first reaction was a suspicion, he's a fucking bigot and could be sued for religious intolerance int he workplace...
Quote:
He then asked if I celebrated Christmas. I said "kind of" before he cut me off and said "Well then it's 'Merry Christmas' to celebrate the birth of our lord, Jesus Christ."
It's not about What you believe as a customer service rep, it's about not offending the people you are talking to on the phone. Happy Holidays is about as neutral as it gets, and can apply to all religious Holy-Days. If he believes that it's his job to proselytize as a customer service rep, he should be fired.
Quote:
I was going to tell him my family celebrated it only as a cultural day in 21st century america w no religious undertones. (In fact, my dad and I tend to refer to it as Festivus citing the famed Seinfeld episode. I almost refuse to say christmas anymore.)
I don't either, people don't believe me on this forum about this being a serious culture war.
Even something as simple as Happy Holidays is really significant, because these asshole Christians will stop at no lengths to validate themselves.
Quote:
Anyways, I shrugged the incident off. I thought I made it clear I was an atheist early on when I transferred to this store but decided not to ruin his holiday by having him acknowledge the presence of an unbeliever. After new years, I may make it a point to let him know by reading one of my atheist books inside the store at lunch as opposed to out in my car as is my usual habit.
Yea, good idea. I would make it a point to do something like that... he's already lost all claims to any respect by acting like a piece of shit.
I would probably go out of my way to say shit to him that I knew would offend him subtly, but then again I'm an asshole.
Quote:
While I'm not worried about the incident itself, does anyone feel this was an appropriate reaction at the work place or was it a form of discrimination?
He is definitely way over the line.
Quote:
If the latter, did I respond well or should I have been more assertive in my lack of belief?
I would have been more assertive, but then again like I said, I'm an asshole.
I would have told him to mind his own fucking business to start off with, and then lectured him about what his Job is, and what is Job isn't. Moral Policing and religious proselytizing probably isn't in his job description, so he should save the sermons for Sundays... and for people who are actually a member of his cult.
_________________ “Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNOPu_wU6hs
Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 370 Local time: 3:07 AM
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Religion in the work place.
Bukaj wrote:
...does anyone feel this was an appropriate reaction at the work place or was it a form of discrimination? If the latter, did I respond well or should I have been more assertive in my lack of belief?
Oh, baby! Have you touched on a sore point! Picture working in a company of over 500 employees with "In God We Trust" posted over the front door, the work day starting with a prayer over the loudspeakers, scriptures plastered all over the walls, Jesus tunes played on the radio, and 500 zombies walking around praising Jaysus all the time...I have folders full of hate mail, conversion letters and signs that have been left by my desk, I am hated, ignored, cursed and evilized for my lack of belief in an invisible entity. That is my reality all day, every day! Very early on, I had to decide how I was going to handle the situation: (a) pretend I was a player and keep my mouth shut; or (2) stick to my guns and fight the freaks. I am the last person left in this country with principles so I chose the latter as I have to sleep with myself at night.
So, you ask if you responded well and, based on experiences with the freaks, NO, you did not. You should have let him have it just like they do us. He had no business doing what he did, particularly, if he's not your superior but just a co-worker. My bosses are the one spreading the madness in the workplace and, yes, I do fight them too. In fact, I have told them that I am prepared to petition the court for a restraining order if they don't leave me alone. Of course, they can fire my ass and there's nothing I can do about it legally or otherwise but, whether they like it or not, they need me and I always keep my options open. If you work in a more tolerant environment where the insanity is not prevalent, you can always complaint to HR or your superiors and he - and others - will have to stop. With these freaks, the best position is to stick to your guns and let them know where you stand at all times and that they can't mess with you (until they decide to burn a cross on your lawn...ha ha...).
Joined: 02 Apr 2003 Posts: 12844 Local time: 12:07 AM Location: SoCal, USA
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject:
Inappropriate, and obnoxious. It's not HIS job to make work place policy, so he needs to STFU.
Why would a Christian say "Merry Christmas" to a non-Christian? That line of thinking completely baffles me. It seems like it's about 2" from saying "You're not Christian, therefore you don't count." _________________ Namaste,
CET
Bukaj at your workplace there is a bulletin board or similar area for posting information. On that board you'll find a federal and a state notice about harasment and other issues. It is required by law that it be posted where every employee can see it. READ IT! It's there to inform you of your rights under state and federal law. Your company has a policy in place for just such a thing as well I'll bet.
FOLLOW THE CHAIN OF COMMAND AND YOUR CO. POLICY EVERY STEP OF THE WAY!! Start with your boss. Take him aside and ask who do you contact to report this to. Record the incident in writting. (time/date/place/names/what was said/ect.) Go calm cool and collected. The law is on your side!
You don't have to explain shit to this person. You own him no explaination about your personal beliefs. You didn't take the job to be harassed.
He overstepped and you better put his ass back where it belongs. I doubt he'll get in any real trouble or fired, but it will serve him notice. Stop! Stop right where you're at and back the fuck up! No more taking you aside and having a friendly chat. (HARASSEMENT IN PRIVATE)
"Got a problem with me asshole? Talk to my boss and stay the fuck outta my face"
ANY type of relatiation from him, your boss, or the company about your complaint, no matter what it's outcome is againt the law.
Even a shitty look across the room can be interpreted as a threat.
If he does....
BREAK YOUR FOOT OFF IN HIS ASS!
But do it calm, cool and within the co. rules and the law.
Take action or take his shit. It's a good excuse to fuck off an afternoon at work and get paid for it too!
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 113 Local time: 12:07 AM Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject:
I guess what pisses me off is that I've gone out of my way to not push my viewpoint, however subtly, on others (reading Harris or Dawkins in private in my car as opposed to in the break room for example). Then I get jumped for wishing a customer "happy holidays"?
I should clarify our work relation a bit btw. I am the technical dept. lead for my store. Meaning I manage the techs at the store. My company is contracted out by this cellphone carrier to do tech work at the store. So not only do I not even work for the same company as this rep, but I would be his superior if our companies ever consolidated.
All that aside, I think I'll let him slide this one time as like I said, he's otherwise a nice guy. He will know not to do it again though. I think I better document it w my boss for future reference in case she has to go to his management at some point later on. _________________ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 Posts: 2351 Local time: 3:07 AM Location: My parents basement.
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject:
I would have told him i was atheist, then told him id rather say happy holidays because it specifies more than one religion-dumb christians-and told him to stop preaching _________________ KILL the pancake
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 5250 Local time: 8:07 AM Location: Manchester
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:07 am Post subject:
i love visitiing these forums,
it always makes me feel better about living in the UK were religion is barely a footnote or non existant in daily life
if any of you americans work in the health service then you can all come over here easily, theyll give you green cards as soon as you mention health lol
you would have to put up with the endless rain but i think its worth it to get away from christians, _________________
Joined: 09 Sep 2005 Posts: 3021 Local time: 8:07 AM
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Religion in the work place.
Bukaj wrote:
Anyways, a co-worker got on me about saying "Happy Holidays" to a customer as opposed to "Merry Christmas."
The Rick Copeland would have simply told the co-worker that it is not a violation of company policy and it is most certainly not any of his goddamned business... _________________ “I think it’s also important for the President to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
-- George W. Bush on Clinton's involvement in Kosovo, 1999
Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 937 Local time: 3:07 AM Location: Clearwater,Fl.
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Religion in the work place.
rickcopeland648 wrote:
Bukaj wrote:
Anyways, a co-worker got on me about saying "Happy Holidays" to a customer as opposed to "Merry Christmas."
The Rick Copeland would have simply told the co-worker that it is not a violation of company policy and it is most certainly not any of his goddamned business...
Well for my 500th post I'll just state that I agree with the Rick Copeland.
Now for the occasion (the 500th post, not agreement with the Rick Copeland) do I get the coupon for one free baby at the next barbecue , the decoder ring, or the "What Would Dave 333383 Do?" bumper sticker?*
* appears as : WWD3D? _________________ The path of least resistance and least trouble is a mental rut already made. It requires troublesome work to undertake the alternation of old beliefs.
-John Dewey
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