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Quantum entanglement
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josephpalazzo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:28 pm    Post subject: Quantum entanglement Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

There are three degrees of spookiness in quantum entanglement:

A ← ●● → B

1) Observer A, called Alice, will measure the spin of incoming particle. If it has spin, say, up then she knows that observer B, called Bob, will measure its counter-part particle’s spin to be down.This is like Alice tossing a coin, heads or tails, and say it comes down heads. Her counterpart Bob who is light years away on the other side of the galaxy, who is also tossing a coin, and now his must come out in this case as tails!

2) Not only that, but Alice can choose whatever axis, an infinity of possibilities, along which the particle spin must quantize as spin up or spin down. Now Bob’s particle, on the other side of the galaxy, must also quantize along the same axis. But how does the particle know that?!?

3) Furthermore, a third observer C, called Claude, might be moving towards either Alice or Bob. If Claude is moving towards Alice, then according to him, she is measuring first, and she decides along which axis the particle spin will quantize. However if at the same time another observer D, called Donna, is moving towards Bob, then according to Donna, it is Bob who makes the first measurement and he decides along which axis the particle will quantize. How can this be??!?? Which is the cause and which is the effect? Accordingly Quantum physics makes no distinction between the two cases.
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Moloth
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

and thus the reason i love QM. Very Happy

the universe doesn't give a fuck if we think it makes sense... lol..
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total
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tonyman1989
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:
But how does the particle know that?!?


I heard about this question, I heard they came up with two answers,

1. inforamation can move faster then light.

2. there connected through some sort of wormhole

I don't know if they came up with a better one yet. QM is very interesting.
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Paranoia21
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:19 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

But according to SR,(I think) nothing can move faster then light.
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josephpalazzo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Moloth wrote:
and thus the reason i love QM. Very Happy

the universe doesn't give a fuck if we think it makes sense... lol..


Just when we think we've got it figured all out, Mother Nature has a way of reminding us whose the boss... Shocked
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josephpalazzo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

tonyman1989 wrote:
Quote:
But how does the particle know that?!?


I heard about this question, I heard they came up with two answers,

1. inforamation can move faster then light.

2. there connected through some sort of wormhole

I don't know if they came up with a better one yet. QM is very interesting.


The consensus among physicists (there is a minority that have dissented over the years, among them Einstein) is that non-locality (the requirement that no influence can travel faster than light) is violated.
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josephpalazzo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Paranoia21 wrote:
But according to SR,(I think) nothing can move faster then light.


Right, this is the reason why SR and QM are in conflict. Einstein was the leader in defending SR, while Bohr and Heisenberg would argue for QM. In the intervening years, from 1925 and on, Bohr was able to answer Einstein's every objection to QM, until Einstein came with what is now famously known as the EPR paradox, which I have outlined in the OP. Bell (1964) was the first to write a theorem, which opened the possibility of doing an expriment. Alain Aspect was the first to conduct that experiment (It was his PhD thesis).

Read this.
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tonyman1989
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

what is?

Quote:
non-locality

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http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion
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tonyman1989
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

josephpalazzo wrote:
Paranoia21 wrote:
But according to SR,(I think) nothing can move faster then light.


Right, this is the reason why SR and QM are in conflict. Einstein was the leader in defending SR, while Bohr and Heisenberg would argue for QM. In the intervening years, from 1925 and on, Bohr was able to answer Einstein's every objection to QM, until Einstein came with what is now famously known as the EPR paradox, which I have outlined in the OP. Bell (1964) was the first to write a theorem, which opened the possibility of doing an expriment. Alain Aspect was the first to conduct that experiment (It was his PhD thesis).

Read this.


really what QM concpect allows FTL?
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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein

"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking

"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins

http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion
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josephpalazzo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

tonyman1989 wrote:
josephpalazzo wrote:
Paranoia21 wrote:
But according to SR,(I think) nothing can move faster then light.


Right, this is the reason why SR and QM are in conflict. Einstein was the leader in defending SR, while Bohr and Heisenberg would argue for QM. In the intervening years, from 1925 and on, Bohr was able to answer Einstein's every objection to QM, until Einstein came with what is now famously known as the EPR paradox, which I have outlined in the OP. Bell (1964) was the first to write a theorem, which opened the possibility of doing an expriment. Alain Aspect was the first to conduct that experiment (It was his PhD thesis).

Read this.


what is? non-locality

really what QM concept allows FTL?


The principle of locality is that distant objects cannot have direct influence on one another: an object is influenced directly only by its immediate surroundings. Quantum entanglement (see the OP) demonstrates that this principle is violated. Einstein used it to criticize the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics on the grounds that entanglement implied what he called "spooky action at a distance". However, the principle of special relativity is saved by the no-communication theorem, which proves that the observers cannot use the inequality violations to communicate information to each other faster than the speed of light. The paradox lies in that it seems that both particles moving away from each other "know" what the two observers are going to do.
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kmisho
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:16 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Bell's Theorem
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josephpalazzo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:21 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

kmisho wrote:
Bell's Theorem


Alain Aspect was the one who in 1983 conducted the first of Bell's experiment. Remarkably, he did it as his PhD thesis.

Aspect PhD thesis
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tonyman1989
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

kmisho wrote:
Bell's Theorem


thanks kmisho
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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein

"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking

"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins

http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion
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josephpalazzo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quantum entanglement soon to be tested on a global scale:

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RyanDzundza
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

my ears are bleeding Sad

my mind isnt able to understand QM at all
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