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Nox
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 Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| AiiA wrote: | Indeed, the jew religion is just as oppressive, dogmatic, absurd, bizarre, dangerous, anti-freethought, as the xian, muslim, hindu, and all other religious beliefs.
The torah, bible, and quran are all of the same bullshit and belong in the trash can.
Given half a chance the jew religion would be as terrible as xianity and islam. |
How are religions without dogma dogmatic?
Where is the oppression in "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"? |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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What is a religion if NOT dogma? O_o
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Sal1981
Do you hear me now?
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | What is a religion if NOT dogma? O_o |
Dynamic.
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"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman
"Why not just make your null hypothesis be that..." - Philosophos |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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but it can only so to a point. religions IS a set of tenets that is upheld. if the core idea changes, the whole religion changes and becomes something else!
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Nox
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but it can only so to a point. religions IS a set of tenets that is upheld. if the core idea changes, the whole religion changes and becomes something else! |
You're limiting yourself. I'm a Thelemite. The generally agreed upon requirements for being a Thelemites are reading its core holy text, Liber AL vel Legis, and accepting it.
The individual, however, is given authority in interpreting the text (which in many sections is highly ambiguous or esoteric), and evangelism of one's understanding is generally frowned upon. While most Thelemites tend to agree on most issues, not all do, and this is perfectly acceptable. Thus, even though many of my views blatantly conflict with those of most Thelemites (concepts of occultism and reincarnation are common amongst Thelemic circles, particularly as the religion's founder was one of the world's most famous occultists), I am still a Thelemite myself.
Certainly this strikes many as odd or irrational - if Thelema is a religion, they would object, it must have its own claims, not tell individuals to "believe what they want." My response to this is that one of the key factors in labeling Thelema a religion is that it is, in essence, a system of beliefs, ethics, and practices based on a holy scripture. Thelema is different in that it allows its adherents a great deal of flexibility in their interpretation. If you actually read Liber AL vel Legis you will take certain common ideas out of it; one of the most common and important concepts derived from the book is that every individual is the center of their own universe. Thelema is in some senses a subjective religion - some Thelemites believe in magical spirits who tell you your destiny, some simply believe in finding a natural harmony with the world that allows you to live a peaceful life. Almost all believe in working towards some kind of harmony/ naturalistic balance, and allowing the various disparities of belief to exist is seen as a necessary step towards this. |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelemite
huh...
| Quote: | Thelema is the English transliteration of the Ancient Greek noun θέλημα: "will", from the verb θέλω: to will, wish, purpose. Early Christian writings use the word to refer to the will of God,[1] the human will,[2] and even the will of God's opponent, the Devil.[3]
Thelema is also an initially fictional philosophy of life first described by François Rabelais (16th century) in his famous books, Gargantua and Pantagruel.[4] The essence of this philosophy was summarized in the phrase "fay çe que vouldras" ("Fais ce que tu veux," or, "Do what thou wilt"), and this philosophy was later put into practice in the mid 18th century by Sir Francis Dashwood at Medmenham.[5]
This Thelemic Law of Rabelais was revived by Aleister Crowley[5] in 1904 when Crowley wrote The Book of the Law, which contains both the word Thelema in Greek as well as the phrase "Do what thou wilt." From this, Crowley took Thelema as the name of the philosophical, mystical and religious system which he subsequently developed, which includes ideas from occultism, Yoga, and both Eastern and Western mysticism (especially the Qabalah).[6] Thus Shri Gurudev Mahendranath, in speaking of svecchachara, a Sanskrit term which he considered the eastern equivalent of the term Thelema, wrote that "Rabelais, Dashwood, and Crowley must share the honor of perpetuating what has been such a high ideal in most of Asia."[5] |
geez. why not just go to Scientology?
Just because your religion is more liberal than others does not mean that is a 'free-thinking' religion that is free of dogma.
"My response to this is that one of the key factors in labeling Thelema a religion is that it is, in essence, a system of beliefs, ethics, and practices based on a holy scripture."
and what happens if you no longer follow/believe that system? That 'system' IS the dogma of the religion.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Thelema is also an initially fictional philosophy of life first described by François Rabelais (16th century) in his famous books, Gargantua and Pantagruel |
*ahem* 
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"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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thats why i quoted it and likened it to Scientology... lol!
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Nox
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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You guys do realize that the philosophy of Francis Rabelais, which predates Thelema by several centuries, is not the same as the religion Thelema, right? And that Aleister Crowley's beliefs are not the same thing as Thelema, either? To your credit, you're not the first people to find out that I'm a Thelemite, wiki it, and then walk out with absolutely no idea whatsoever of what I believe - that article is easily one of the worst and most misleading introductions to Thelema that I've come across.
| Quote: | | geez. why not just go to Scientology? |
Because, as I am neither Alesiter Crowley nor Francis Rabelais (whose belief systems the wiki article strangely attribute to Thelema), I do not believe what they do?
| Quote: | | Just because your religion is more liberal than others does not mean that is a 'free-thinking' religion that is free of dogma. |
Liberal is your word. My word is "non-dogmatic." This would imply a lack of dogma.
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and what happens if you no longer follow/believe that system? |
I believe/ follow a different system, presumably.
| Quote: | | That 'system' IS the dogma of the religion. |
Dogma has to be authoritative. Catholics can't simply not believe in Catholic dogma. As there is no ecclesiastical body handing down authoritative statements that must be adhered to by all Thelemites, the religion has no dogma. |
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patriot135
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| There is nothing wrong with God. God brings people happyness and makes them belive in hope. It also prevents crimes from occuring because people belive that they will go to hell if they commit them. It brings people together and makes them think they are not alone. This false sense of security can help many people live a better, safer, life. The only thing I don't understand is the stories behind the Jewish and in general religion. For example, in the Jewish religion, where Moses led the Jews out of Egypt, God broke open the sea to let the Jews pass. How can people believe that today? Science today constradics religion and the belief of evolution. If the bibble and torah explain that christianity was only created about 3000 years ago when Jesus started it, and that evoltuion is false because God controls everything, then how do you explain all the human remains from 20,000 years ago? If there was no evoltuion, according to the catholics and their beliefs, then how were those bones and human remains different from ours today, which means that they were changed and evoltuionized. |
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