Political/Government General Discussion : If the United States Were A Free Country...

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If the United States Were A Free Country...
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Of the 10, with how many do you agree?

All 10.

38%

[ 5 ]

9-8

38%

[ 5 ]

7-6

[ 0 ]

5-3

23%

[ 3 ]

2-1

[ 0 ]

None.

[ 0 ]

Total Votes : 13

Author

Message

Iliketofrolic666
laissez faire, laissez aller, laissez passer

Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 266
Local time: 2:12 AM
Location: Buffalo, NY

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject:

SalsaShark wrote:

hillbillyatheist wrote:

SalsaShark wrote:

My biggest problem with america is basically the patriotism/nationalism.

we're a proud people man. some of us are arrogant about it, and others like me, well, we're just proud of who we are, and people have different ways of showing their pride. for us, its flag waving. no offense is intended.

Quote:

I just don't see the point of having american flags everywhere.

its our way of expressing pride. there is nothing wrong with it. its our culture. its not meant to be taken offensively.

Quote:

And alongside that, it is just my experience, but it seems that people in Canada are generally much more friendly.

yes sjc is a real friendly guy! Laughing

seriously though it depends on where you go. some places in america are very friendly and other places are not so friendly. america is a vast place.

Quote:

We both have out good and our bad qualities. For now because of my experience in the states, I'd much rather live in Canada, and I'm sure the vast majority up here would rather live in Canada, and the vast majority down their would rather live in the states. I just wish the sense of nationalism wouldn't make me feel unwelcome everytime I visit the states.

you shouldn't feel unwelcome. the flags are not meant as "fuck you canadians" but simply as "we're americans and we're proud."

some will ask "Why be proud? I will respond with why the hell not? Laughing

Hahaha, OK, SJC isn't very friendly, you're right. It's funny because I know that there are plenty of friendly americans, probably most would be friendly in the exact same situation as any Canadian. After all we aren't THAT different at all. It's just my experience would suggest otherwise. It's really quite infortunate.
And ya, as you said, it is a part of your culture and that's fine. But just like I don't like wearing a lipdisc, I'm not a big flag waver. And I totally know it's not meant to be unwelcoming at all. HOWEVER, on the topic of unwelcoming, you're boarders patrollers are psycho and quite unwelcoming! Every single time I've had to wait at least an hour and a half to get in, and then they leave my car so I can't see out the back window because they messed up my carefully placed suitcases and the like. Fuck, I hate the fuckin' boarder! But seriously, based on almost every american I have talked to online, I just know there are some nice, normal, happy people... I've just never met them in person.

Yeah, after 9/11 when I come over the peace bridge it feels like we're living in a police state. The one time my dad had a couple tiny pieces of bark from firewood in the back of his pick up and the woman told him that he had to declare it with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. It was the most asinine thing ever. I mean it's not like pieces of wood could float across Lake Erie from the Canadian side...

Specus_Meretricis
Peddler of Bombast

Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 2754
Local time: 3:12 AM

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject:

Iliketofrolic666 wrote:

SalsaShark wrote:

hillbillyatheist wrote:

SalsaShark wrote:

My biggest problem with america is basically the patriotism/nationalism.

Quote:

I just don't see the point of having american flags everywhere.

its our way of expressing pride. there is nothing wrong with it. its our culture. its not meant to be taken offensively.

Quote:

And alongside that, it is just my experience, but it seems that people in Canada are generally much more friendly.

yes sjc is a real friendly guy! Laughing

seriously though it depends on where you go. some places in america are very friendly and other places are not so friendly. america is a vast place.

Quote:

No, but Michigan and other Great Lake states have a worm epidemic that is getting transmitted through fire wood. I don't know when this happened to you, but that is the only reason why I can think they would push that.
I use to drive to Canada almost every weekend and only every once in a while did I have to deal with border patrol. I did notice that the Canadian guards were bigger assholes than the American ones. So this whole thread pretty much tells me that Canadian guards are assholes and American guards are assholes.
I could take the Salsa Shark easy way out and base every I know in the world to be off of bad service I got at a Tim Horton's in Windsor and say that every Canadian in southern Ontario are a bunch of pansy little shut ins that shit their pants whenever an American looks at them cross eyed, but I know that isn't true because:

1) I haven't met everyone in southern Ontario.
2) You are a fucking moron if you form an opinion about a whole country off of border guards or food service employees.
3) Almost every ex-Pat or foreign traveler I ever met has commented to me about how American's are very friendly and treat travelers very well.
4) I don't cater to anyone that cries every time they see an American flag, a rude guard (who's job it is to be rude), or a black woman spitting in his French fries.

WWFStern
Intern
Intern

Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 57
Local time: 5:12 PM

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject:

Moloth wrote:

WWFStern wrote:

Moloth wrote:

i feel pretty fuckn free... i can go where i want, say what i want, fuck who i want, read what i want, drive what i want, criticize who i want, mock who i want, eat what i want, go to whatever doctor i want, work wherever i want, spend my money how i want, and just spend my time doing whatever the hell i want.

I don't have to work, i don't have to pray. If i work harder and smarter, i get rewarded. i'm free to succeed to the limit of my ability.

I have no blaspheme laws, no morality police, no fashion police, and no thought police telling me what to do or not to do.

Looks at N. Korea... or Saudi Arabia... or parts of Africa...or hell, even Poland.. and Canada.

Yeah, i feel pretty fucking free.

The War on Drugs.....prostitution laws.....FCC decency regulations......marriage restrictions.....anti-euthanasia laws...... Those are all clear abridgments of natural freedom, and they should be actively opposed.

i agree with all of those. i do.

but, tell me where has all of those AND what i described above.

((seriously.. i wanna move there))

The Top 5 Most Free Countries (in my opinion)

Finland
France
Netherlands
Norway
Sweden

Specus_Meretricis
Peddler of Bombast

Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 2754
Local time: 3:12 AM

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject:

WWFStern wrote:

Moloth wrote:

WWFStern wrote:

Moloth wrote:

i agree with all of those. i do.

but, tell me where has all of those AND what i described above.

((seriously.. i wanna move there))

The Top 5 Most Free Countries (in my opinion)

Finland
France
Netherlands
Norway
Sweden

France is free...as long as you don't want to wear a Burka.

WWFStern
Intern
Intern

Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 57
Local time: 5:12 PM

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject:

Specus_Meretricis wrote:

WWFStern wrote:

Moloth wrote:

WWFStern wrote:

Moloth wrote:

i agree with all of those. i do.

but, tell me where has all of those AND what i described above.

((seriously.. i wanna move there))

The Top 5 Most Free Countries (in my opinion)

Finland
France
Netherlands
Norway
Sweden

France is free...as long as you don't want to wear a Burka.

Isn't all religious merchandise banned?

Yellow_Number_Five
Forum Master

Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 10036
Local time: 3:12 AM
Location: The 5% Nation

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:32 am Post subject:

Quote:

SalsShark"]Fuck, I hate the fuckin' boarder!

There are Americans, like myself who hate it too. I've personally never understood the need for countries and arbitrary borders.

I've got no national pride at all. I LOVE where I live, and I'm happy that I live in a place that allows me to say what I say, live as I live and more or less do as I wish. There are plenty of WORSE places to live, and I know for a fact that there are plenty of equally good or arguably better places to live depending on the aspects one looks at.

I'm not proud to be encircled by an arbitrary line in the dirt that is America though - nor am I ashamed by it. I do consider myself a bit lucky to be where I am though, like I said, there are plenty of worse places to live and in quite a few of those places I would have been stoned to death for what I've said and done here completely within our laws.

As happy as I am about that, I see within the very fibre of where I live people who wish to trash what I love most about it. A LOT of people.

I'm not proud of where I live, but I DO appreciate it, and would be willing to fight to defend it, were it under legitamet threat (and you'd better believe that includes threats from within). In many respects I feel the criticisms and griping I lay down about the people who run the place where I live are doing exactly that.

I'm very happy to be an American.
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Iliketofrolic666
laissez faire, laissez aller, laissez passer

Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 266
Local time: 2:12 AM
Location: Buffalo, NY

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject:

WWFStern wrote:

Moloth wrote:

WWFStern wrote:

Moloth wrote:

i agree with all of those. i do.

but, tell me where has all of those AND what i described above.

((seriously.. i wanna move there))

The Top 5 Most Free Countries (in my opinion)

Finland
France
Netherlands
Norway
Sweden

France?

SvZurich
Loki's Little Valkyrie

Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 22888
Local time: 11:12 PM
Location: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject:

Canada should have replaced France in his list. They have their own TV broadcast format (SECAM) and don't want to learn English. _________________ Kimberly (HSBUH) aka Baroness Sylvia von Zurich (the only Goldwater Conservative) endorses the Meadow Party's Bill and Opus for the 2012 Presidential election! The Atheist Forums have new rules!

Iliketofrolic666
laissez faire, laissez aller, laissez passer

Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 266
Local time: 2:12 AM
Location: Buffalo, NY

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject:

I think that any list we make will be arbitrary as I am sure no one has visited all the first world countries that is on these forums.

CET
The Spiritual Atheist

Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12844
Local time: 11:12 PM
Location: SoCal, USA

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject:

hillbillyatheist wrote:

okay thats the third time I have seen the "it's caterday" thing. what is caturday?

I like kitties. That means every day is caturday! Very Happy

I met this pretty fella at the San Diego Wild Animal Park on Sunday. He's about 2 feet away from me here. I wanted to pet him, but the handler wasn't too keen on that. Sad

_________________
Namaste,
CET Cool

The Spiritual Atheist

"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha

"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin

CET
The Spiritual Atheist

Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12844
Local time: 11:12 PM
Location: SoCal, USA

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject:

SalsaShark wrote:

CET wrote:

I'm definitely now down with the whole "nationalism" gripe. Americans generally spend WAY too much time beating the nationalist drum, and I find it both annoying and often times down right disturbing.

On the other side, SJC just likes to slag on America. There is a small minority of Canadians that just seem to want to hate America no matter what. Every country has some form of that kind of person. It doesn't mean anything. It's just frustrations being redirected.

.

.

.

That was SO Zen! Very Happy

Yeah, there is definitely a minority of Canadians who will just hate everything America will do. And honestly, to me, they have an inferiority complex. That isn't to say America is necessarily greater, but it definitely has some aspects that are light years beyond anything Canada could even wish for. And in that sense, America is "greater". As HBA (I think, I could be wrong) said, it's a meaningless comment without something to relate it to. And honestly, I used to be like that. I'm not anymore because it's fuckin' retard - I mean we are basically the same country with the same people. I just have had really bad experiences and I can't seem to catch a break.

South Park has Scott.

Scott: You Americans want to rule the world!
Stan: Who's that guy?
Friendly Canadian: Him? That's just Scott. Scott's a dick.

I think of that EVERY time I hear from an America hating Canadian.
_________________
Namaste,
CET Cool

CET
The Spiritual Atheist

Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12844
Local time: 11:12 PM
Location: SoCal, USA

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject:

hillbillyatheist wrote:

CET wrote:

hillbillyatheist wrote:

SalsaShark wrote:

My biggest problem with america is basically the patriotism/nationalism.

I'm not proud to be an American, because there's nothing to be proud of. I didn't choose to be an American, so why should I be proud?

are you a vulcan?

I wish, that would be freakin SWEET!

hillbillyatheist wrote:

why does everything have to be rational.

Coz I wanna be a Vulcan, DUH. Razz

hillbillyatheist wrote:

I am proud to be an american because I have a tribal instinct that says "be part of a group and be proud" I don't have a rational reason to be proud of my heritage anymore than I have for liking country music, or jacking off, or going camping. I just do it because it feels good, and I don't see how it hurts anyone. I am proud to be an american, just because.

Some instincts are still useful and constructive. Others are no longer useful and are destructive. We should shed the destructive instincts. Tribalism is a primitive form of socializing that needs to be upgraded to a more constructive form.

hillbillyatheist wrote:

I am not always rational and thats fine with me. I'm not a vulcan. Smile

Me neither, but Vulcans do kick ass! Smile

hillbillyatheist wrote:

I could ascribe rational reasons such as the fact that we were founded on great ideals and though we have not always lived up to them, we get better all the time, but then as you say thats reason to be glad to be an american not proud as I didn't create this country or its ideals, but damn it I'm proud anyway! 2 man down

I'll be proud of my choices, and glad for my caused circumstances. You be whatever you want, just so long as you aren't gettin violent over it.

Cheers. 2 man down

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Namaste,
CET Cool

CET
The Spiritual Atheist

Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12844
Local time: 11:12 PM
Location: SoCal, USA

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject:

SteveInSF wrote:

CET wrote:

I'm not proud to be an American, because there's nothing to be proud of. I didn't choose to be an American, so why should I be proud? I am glad to be an American, and am grateful that causality has placed me in a fortunate place and time in human history.

CET, I assume you pay taxes. If so, you are part of a system. One that builds roads, schools, hospitals, shelters and feeds homeless and provides you with an economic system in which you can thrive. The same system does generate things that many of us are not proud of, war being the best example, but it also provides money for science, sends rockets into space and advances technology for the benefit of mankind.

You don't have to be proud of that, but I am. You didn't choose to be born here, but you were and you choose to participate. America is not the only country that does the things I mentioned above, and many other people participate in similar systems. I feel that they should be proud of that too. Canadians, Brits, French, Italians, Aussies, etc. all have something to be proud of, in my opinion. We all participate in our own systems and shouldn't feel ashamed for taking pride in the system we participate in.

There are people that wrap themselves in the flag and justify anything they do based on that. I am not proud of them and I am not proud for all the same reasons. But, I am proud to live where I live, have the option to choose how I live and participate in the system that provides me with the freedoms that I do have.

Can you be proud that a millionaire randomly ran up to you and give you a truck load of cash? Can you be proud that it was sunny today instead of cloudy? Can you be proud that we have a yellow sun instead of a red one?

I can be proud of my decisions, but I fail to see how I can be proud of something that happened to me that is completely out of my control. I can be happy that it happened, but not proud.
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Namaste,
CET Cool

CET
The Spiritual Atheist

Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12844
Local time: 11:12 PM
Location: SoCal, USA

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject:

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

SalsShark wrote:

Fuck, I hate the fuckin' boarder!

There are Americans, like myself who hate it too. I've personally never understood the need for countries and arbitrary borders.

THANK YOU!! :SUPZ:

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

I've got no national pride at all. I LOVE where I live, and I'm happy that I live in a place that allows me to say what I say, live as I live and more or less do as I wish. There are plenty of WORSE places to live, and I know for a fact that there are plenty of equally good or arguably better places to live depending on the aspects one looks at.

I'm not proud to be encircled by an arbitrary line in the dirt that is America though - nor am I ashamed by it. I do consider myself a bit lucky to be where I am though, like I said, there are plenty of worse places to live and in quite a few of those places I would have been stoned to death for what I've said and done here completely within our laws.

As happy as I am about that, I see within the very fibre of where I live people who wish to trash what I love most about it. A LOT of people.

I'm not proud of where I live, but I DO appreciate it, and would be willing to fight to defend it, were it under legitamet threat (and you'd better believe that includes threats from within). In many respects I feel the criticisms and griping I lay down about the people who run the place where I live are doing exactly that.

I'm very happy to be an American.

Word
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Namaste,
CET Cool

FlatEarth1024
Hey, Everybody!

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4148
Local time: 7:12 AM
Location: Dippin' my balls in it.

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject:

CET wrote:

I can be proud of my decisions, but I fail to see how I can be proud of something that happened to me that is completely out of my control. I can be happy that it happened, but not proud.

I see where you're coming from, but maybe there's room for some pride. Not in the productive sense...not as in being proud of something you've done, but perhaps in the possessive sense? Like maybe the way you bring your buddies outside to see your new Mustang. You didn't build the Mustang, some guy in Detroit did, but you're proud to be its owner...like that maybe?

Maybe I'm not actually proud to be an American in that it is much more an occurrence of happenstance than choice. But I am proud of America. I'm proud to live in a system that affords me so many opportunities and that I can influence with my voice and my votes to make changes for future betterment.

Maybe that's the proper definition of what we're proud of as Americans. We didn't build the fast, shiny Mustang, but we can't help but be a little proud that its ours when we show it off.
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