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| Of the 10, with how many do you agree? |
| All 10. |
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38% |
[ 5 ] |
| 9-8 |
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38% |
[ 5 ] |
| 7-6 |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 5-3 |
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23% |
[ 3 ] |
| 2-1 |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| None. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 13 |
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Message |
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12865
Local time: 12:18 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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 Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| SalsaShark wrote: | My biggest problem with america is basically the patriotism/nationalism. I drive through the states to get to ontario for school (I come from Saskatchewan), and as soon as I cross the boarder I feel like I'm an outsider. I realize it's a part of your culture but it's just not my cup of tea really. I'd rather show my patriotism by drinking a cold glass of Molson Canadian - OK, I'd never fuckin' do that either, but I just don't see the point of having american flags everywhere. I mean, you go to a mall and you have them hanging from every lightpost in the parking lot. Some people say that it's the same thing in Canada with Canadian Tire and The Great Canadian Superstore, but it's really not as I have never been to either of those stores without seeing an American flag (proudly) hanging right along side the Canadian.
And alongside that, it is just my experience, but it seems that people in Canada are generally much more friendly. Even people at the gas stations or the fast food joints, but I honestly get a sense of being unwelcome by their attitudes.
Having said that, Canadian music sucks balls, we have little to no entertainment industry (wooo George Strombolopolous..... yay), and I'm progressively going away from out socialist lean.
We both have out good and our bad qualities. For now because of my experience in the states, I'd much rather live in Canada, and I'm sure the vast majority up here would rather live in Canada, and the vast majority down their would rather live in the states. I just wish the sense of nationalism wouldn't make me feel unwelcome everytime I visit the states.
Oh, and as for what Moloth said, everything that you listed we can do too. So, I'm not sure if that was just a personal attack on SJC or what. |
I'm definitely now down with the whole "nationalism" gripe. Americans generally spend WAY too much time beating the nationalist drum, and I find it both annoying and often times down right disturbing.
On the other side, SJC just likes to slag on America. There is a small minority of Canadians that just seem to want to hate America no matter what. Every country has some form of that kind of person. It doesn't mean anything. It's just frustrations being redirected.
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That was SO Zen! 
_________________
Namaste,
CET 
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12865
Local time: 12:18 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| hillbillyatheist wrote: | | SalsaShark wrote: | | My biggest problem with america is basically the patriotism/nationalism. |
we're a proud people man. some of us are arrogant about it, and others like me, well, we're just proud of who we are, and people have different ways of showing their pride. for us, its flag waving. no offense is intended. |
I'm not proud to be an American, because there's nothing to be proud of. I didn't choose to be an American, so why should I be proud? I am glad to be an American, and am grateful that causality has placed me in a fortunate place and time in human history.
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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Uncertainty
Forum Master
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 3414
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| America has very different food depending on where you go. I mean we don't even call food items the same things in different places. So it's kind of crazy to visit a few parts, or maybe even just one, and then declare American food bad. Everytime my parents go to new jersey to visit family they bring back bread because they despise the kind they have here, and that's one state over. |
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Moloth
Fateless
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23105
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| SalsaShark wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | SalsaShark wrote: |
Oh, and as for what Moloth said, everything that you listed we can do too. So, I'm not sure if that was just a personal attack on SJC or what. |
yes, saying that i like where i live is a direct, personal attack upon SJC.
ladies and gentlemen, Salsa has just found the center of the universe.. and it is SJC! |
You must have misunderstood. I was reffering to how you said, or implied, that Canada doesn't have the same social freedoms as you. Which is just plain insane. |
 The only one i can even think of off the top of my head is the "free to choose my own doctor"... with Canada's UHC, doesn't the Gubmint tell you which Doc you have to go to (or a short list of choices)?
And, somehow, this is against SJC! that... that... that.. CANADIAN! 
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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SalsaShark
has filled in a custom rank.
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1157
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Regina SK CAN
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | I'm definitely now down with the whole "nationalism" gripe. Americans generally spend WAY too much time beating the nationalist drum, and I find it both annoying and often times down right disturbing.
On the other side, SJC just likes to slag on America. There is a small minority of Canadians that just seem to want to hate America no matter what. Every country has some form of that kind of person. It doesn't mean anything. It's just frustrations being redirected.
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That was SO Zen! |
Yeah, there is definitely a minority of Canadians who will just hate everything America will do. And honestly, to me, they have an inferiority complex. That isn't to say America is necessarily greater, but it definitely has some aspects that are light years beyond anything Canada could even wish for. And in that sense, America is "greater". As HBA (I think, I could be wrong) said, it's a meaningless comment without something to relate it to. And honestly, I used to be like that. I'm not anymore because it's fuckin' retard - I mean we are basically the same country with the same people. I just have had really bad experiences and I can't seem to catch a break. |
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SalsaShark
has filled in a custom rank.
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1157
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Regina SK CAN
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | The only one i can even think of off the top of my head is the "free to choose my own doctor"... with Canada's UHC, doesn't the Gubmint tell you which Doc you have to go to (or a short list of choices)?
And, somehow, this is against SJC! that... that... that.. CANADIAN! |
I've always been able to choose my own doctor. Then again, I've never had to go in for major surgery or whatever. I don't see why you couldn't choose. On the same note though, I'm free to marry another dude if I want to; so  , na na nuhna na.
And the only reason I said against SJC is because everyone seems to give him shit. Yes, he deserves it - I know. He's a douchebag. But I honestly thought it was a shot to get SJC goin'. |
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da_monumental_1
Linux Gawd
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 693
Local time: 4:18 AM
Location: Lumberton, NC
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I've been to 29 countries and counting. None of those countries have softer shit paper than the US. If a thing like that counts for something.
*ducks*
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FlatEarth1024
Forum Master
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4275
Local time: 8:18 AM
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| da_monumental_1 wrote: | | Well, I've been to 29 countries and counting. None of those countries have softer shit paper than the US. If a thing like that counts for something. |
Hell yes. The quality and quantity of a country's asswipe is directly proportionate to that country's gross national product.
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Moloth
Fateless
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23105
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| SalsaShark wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | The only one i can even think of off the top of my head is the "free to choose my own doctor"... with Canada's UHC, doesn't the Gubmint tell you which Doc you have to go to (or a short list of choices)?
And, somehow, this is against SJC! that... that... that.. CANADIAN! |
I've always been able to choose my own doctor. Then again, I've never had to go in for major surgery or whatever. I don't see why you couldn't choose. On the same note though, I'm free to marry another dude if I want to; so , na na nuhna na.
And the only reason I said against SJC is because everyone seems to give him shit. Yes, he deserves it - I know. He's a douchebag. But I honestly thought it was a shot to get SJC goin'. |
no... like i've said before, i only make fun of people when they deserve it at that time. He hasn't said anything for me to tease him about...
i really was just listing some of the things i enjoy about the country i happened to be born into.
yeah, i've never said that the U.S. is perfect... but its a HELL of a lot better than 90% of the other countries in world in just about every way.
its not some intrinsic property of being 'Merica (fuck yeah!), its just because we're an advanced Western country... and an economic powerhouse.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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hillbillyatheist
Administrator
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 16072
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Denver Colorado.
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | | hillbillyatheist wrote: | | SalsaShark wrote: | | My biggest problem with america is basically the patriotism/nationalism. |
we're a proud people man. some of us are arrogant about it, and others like me, well, we're just proud of who we are, and people have different ways of showing their pride. for us, its flag waving. no offense is intended. |
I'm not proud to be an American, because there's nothing to be proud of. I didn't choose to be an American, so why should I be proud? |
are you a vulcan? why does everything have to be rational. I am proud to be an american because I have a tribal instinct that says "be part of a group and be proud" I don't have a rational reason to be proud of my heritage anymore than I have for liking country music, or jacking off, or going camping. I just do it because it feels good, and I don't see how it hurts anyone. I am proud to be an american, just because.
I am not always rational and thats fine with me. I'm not a vulcan. 
I could ascribe rational reasons such as the fact that we were founded on great ideals and though we have not always lived up to them, we get better all the time, but then as you say thats reason to be glad to be an american not proud as I didn't create this country or its ideals, but damn it I'm proud anyway!  |
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SalsaShark
has filled in a custom rank.
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1157
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Regina SK CAN
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | no... like i've said before, i only make fun of people when they deserve it at that time. He hasn't said anything for me to tease him about...
i really was just listing some of the things i enjoy about the country i happened to be born into.
yeah, i've never said that the U.S. is perfect... but its a HELL of a lot better than 90% of the other countries in world in just about every way.
its not some intrinsic property of being 'Merica (fuck yeah!), its just because we're an advanced Western country... and an economic powerhouse. |
OK, I'm still not entirely sure why you have Canada in that list. It seems entirely out of place. |
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Moloth
Fateless
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23105
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| SalsaShark wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | no... like i've said before, i only make fun of people when they deserve it at that time. He hasn't said anything for me to tease him about...
i really was just listing some of the things i enjoy about the country i happened to be born into.
yeah, i've never said that the U.S. is perfect... but its a HELL of a lot better than 90% of the other countries in world in just about every way.
its not some intrinsic property of being 'Merica (fuck yeah!), its just because we're an advanced Western country... and an economic powerhouse. |
OK, I'm still not entirely sure why you have Canada in that list. It seems entirely out of place. |
wow... you Canucks ARE sensitive. 
sheesh... i'll go back and delete the name of your country out of my post if it will make you feel better. goodness.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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SteveInSF
Forum Plebian
Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 195
Local time: 6:18 PM
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: |
I'm not proud to be an American, because there's nothing to be proud of. I didn't choose to be an American, so why should I be proud? I am glad to be an American, and am grateful that causality has placed me in a fortunate place and time in human history. |
CET, I assume you pay taxes. If so, you are part of a system. One that builds roads, schools, hospitals, shelters and feeds homeless and provides you with an economic system in which you can thrive. The same system does generate things that many of us are not proud of, war being the best example, but it also provides money for science, sends rockets into space and advances technology for the benefit of mankind.
You don't have to be proud of that, but I am. You didn't choose to be born here, but you were and you choose to participate. America is not the only country that does the things I mentioned above, and many other people participate in similar systems. I feel that they should be proud of that too. Canadians, Brits, French, Italians, Aussies, etc. all have something to be proud of, in my opinion. We all participate in our own systems and shouldn't feel ashamed for taking pride in the system we participate in.
There are people that wrap themselves in the flag and justify anything they do based on that. I am not proud of them and I am not proud for all the same reasons. But, I am proud to live where I live, have the option to choose how I live and participate in the system that provides me with the freedoms that I do have. |
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SalsaShark
has filled in a custom rank.
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1157
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Regina SK CAN
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | wow... you Canucks ARE sensitive.
sheesh... i'll go back and delete the name of your country out of my post if it will make you feel better. goodness. |
Hahaha, yeah well... |
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Iliketofrolic666
laissez faire, laissez aller, laissez passer
Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 266
Local time: 3:18 AM
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | | Code: | | If the United States were a free country, children never would be made to subscribe to any religious ideology. In order to accept a supernatural belief system legitimately, one must be old enough to weigh different religions’ relative merits. Speaking of a Christian child is absurd, just as speaking of a Keynesian child or a neo-conservative child clearly would be. It is imperative to realize that freedom from indoctrination is more important than parents’ perceived right to indoctrinate. |
I disagreed with this one, because it did not specify the source. Freedom would require that parents be allowed to teach their children whatever it is they believe to be true (even if they're wrong). However, if this is government mandated such as in a public school, then I would agree with this.
| Iliketofrolic666 wrote: | You can tell that this was written by a liberal because it completely misses free trade and the right to keep property without the government redistributing your wealth (i.e. welfare). Although I agree on the capital punishment one, its wording sucked. Capital punishment is only murder when you have the wrong guy.
I voted 10. |
Obviously a liberal wrote this? Do you forget that the abolition of capital punishment is a stated part of the Libertarian Party platform?
To purposefully kill someone when there is no imminent danger is murder. Murdering for the sake of revenge (as much as they may deserve it) is still murder. |
I beg to differ, murder is, "The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice."
Anyway I said that I was against capital punishment in the post you quoted, I just didn't like the wording.
Also, I was saying that this was written by a liberal because it missed economic freedom, capital punishment was just an afterthought. |
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