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neon
Excelsior!
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 Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: Re: The Unanswerable Question For Christians? |
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| Disciple of Truth wrote: | False Gods and false religions were created by satan in order to get humans to worship him instead of God. What do you think Satan was doing in these verses, playing freeze tag. He was up to know good.
Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
He was creating false religions. Why do you think ALL ancient peoples worshipped serpents.
Humans aren't 190,000 years old. Those are what people with common sense called apes. The oldest known REAL HUMAN fossil dates back no more than 10,000 years |
A library card: use it.
You be trippin'.
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hephzibah
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Unanswerable Question For Christians? |
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| Disciple of Truth wrote: | | WWFStern wrote: | | If Christianity is the one true faith, and God wants everybody to go to Heaven by accepting it, then why did it take our species (which is about 195,000 years old) approximately 190,000 years to discover it (while in the meantime worshipping all manner of "false" gods and following scores of "fake" religions)? |
False Gods and false religions were created by satan in order to get humans to worship him instead of God. What do you think Satan was doing in these verses, playing freeze tag. He was up to know good.
Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
He was creating false religions. Why do you think ALL ancient peoples worshipped serpents.
Humans aren't 190,000 years old. Those are what people with common sense called apes. The oldest known REAL HUMAN fossil dates back no more than 10,000 years |
Hmmm, interesting disciple. Who brainwashed you into reading between the lines here to see "Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it... to create false religions in order to get humans to worship ME instead of YOU, God."?
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Don't worry... Jesus loves you... Really he does... He'll only send you to hell if you don't follow his commandments... or him... oh yeah and hate your mother and father... but don't worry it's all good... just put on a skirt and head to church... it's your one way ticket to heaven... Truuuust me!  |
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CrazyInABox
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | wrong! here is the verse again.
Quote:
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
first it says, if you are angry with your brother without cause, you are in danger of hellfire, then the verse says that you will be in trouble for saying "raca" to your brother, then it says
"whosoever says "thou fool" is in danger of hell fire."
and does not say brother in that part of the verse. |
You're absolutely right. Christians shouldn't be calling anyone "fools" or any equivalents of the word. This strictly goes against the teachings of Christ who told us to "love our enemies" and "do good to them who persecute you" and "turn the other cheek."
However, our Americanized, Calvinized Christianity today seems to teach just the opposite.
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Jutter
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| RUGoingUP wrote: | | First, it's God who's calling them fools, not me. |
So... you're either in agreement or disagreement with that. How about you take some responsibility for your convictions!
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benyjets23
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think this thread is utterly pointless because the original poster has no clue about christian thought on special and general revelation and how that works its way out in the salvation scheme of things. Its as if the thread was really over before it even began....
Ben |
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ApostateLois
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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The truly unanswerable question for Christians is in my signature. 
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Benjirama
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: The Unanswerable Question For Christians? |
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| Disciple of Truth wrote: |
Humans aren't 190,000 years old. Those are what people with common sense called apes. The oldest known REAL HUMAN fossil dates back no more than 10,000 years |
Really?
Prove it.
I am a geologist mate and i have seen many, many, rock sequences, many fossils and i have never seen the remains of a human in anything lower than quateriary deposits (that is the most recent geological epoch). In fact you rarely find human remains lower than the top soil.
Unless the rocks are faulted over or folded over younger rocks the law is simple. The higher up the rock, the younger it is. So if all the human remains are at the top, they are the youngest. And all thouse trilobites which are way, way lower, are obivously much much older.
I don't think i need to say any more
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| CrazyInABox wrote: |
As for the donkey, the book of Numbers says that God opened her mouth. Since God is all powerful, this really isn't as shocking as it first seems. |
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redraiderdude187
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| RUGoingUP wrote: | Sorry Hillbilly.
out of context...AGAIN!!!
First, it's God who's calling them fools, not me.
Second, I'm not angry.
Third, a 'brother' is a fellow believer, which he is not.
The Bible really DOES make sense, if you know how to read it.
Larry |
How you read it, or however more present-day acceptable you choose to interpret it? To quote your own book here, "Seek and ye shall find". Any book could be interpreted in a million different ways, especially one as sizable as the Bible, so don't give me this BS about "if you know how to read it". How can you alone decide what should be taken literally and what should be taken metaphorically?
| Quote: | False Gods and false religions were created by satan in order to get humans to worship him instead of God. What do you think Satan was doing in these verses, playing freeze tag. He was up to know good.
Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
He was creating false religions. Why do you think ALL ancient peoples worshipped serpents.
Humans aren't 190,000 years old. Those are what people with common sense called apes. The oldest known REAL HUMAN fossil dates back no more than 10,000 years |
Somebody's drinking the kool-aid! Have you ever even read a science book in your lifetime? Also, if no "real human" fossils date back more than 10000 years, then how does the rest of the scientific world get away while being completely wrong here? Pretty much every evolutionary biologist and anthropologist f***ed up the carbon dating, but you, probably the insurance salesman from Topeka, got it right because you took a theology class at the local Bible college and the next Ted Haggard told you to put the blinders on to science? Get a grip. It's high time people like you opened your eyes. |
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Nimitz
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | First, it's God who's calling them fools, not me. |
Common dodge. "I didn't say it... but I brought it up." 
You can pile the physical evidence up in front of YECer as high as Mt. Everest and they'll ignore all of it. They already have their conclusions, no evidence is going to shake reality into them. Even their fellow OEC xians can't make a dent in their dumb as a stump skulls. |
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Polaris
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Nimitz wrote:
| Quote: | | dumb as a stump skulls |
LMAO! Brain stems......... |
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CrazyInABox
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If Christianity is the one true faith, and God wants everybody to go to Heaven by accepting it, then why did it take our species (which is about 195,000 years old) approximately 190,000 years to discover it (while in the meantime worshipping all manner of "false" gods and following scores of "fake" religions)? |
I have to agree with the other Christians posting on this thread that the earth is somewhere around six thousand years old. However, I don't rely on faith to believe this. I mean, faith is all well and good, but solid evidence in the contrary outdoes it any day. So if the evidence points to an ancient earth, then your question is legitimate. But does it?
Our oceans contain concentrations of Aluminum, Antinomy, Barium, Bicarbonate, Bismuth, Calcium, Carbonates, Chlorine, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Gold, Iron, Lead, Lithium, Manganese, Magnesium, Mercury, Molybdenum, Nickel, Potassium, Rubidium, Silicon, Silver, Sodium, Strontium, Sulfate, Thorium, Tin, Titanium, Tungsten, Uranium, and Zinc. The river systems add to these concentrations at fixed apparent rates. Comparing the amounts already in the oceans with the rates at which more are being dumped, indicates the earth, as well as its river systems and oceans, are fairly young.
Sediments are being eroded into our oceans at a fixed rate. There are only a few thousand years worth of sediments on the ocean floor.
The Earth's magnetic field has been accurately measured since 1829. Since 1829, it has decayed 7%. It is decaying exponentially at a fixed rate. By graphing the curve, we see that approximately 22,000 years ago the Earth's field would have been as strong as the Sun's. Life would have been impossible.
Comets are constantly losing matter. They are losing and losing and never gaining. "Short Period Comets" (like Haley's comet), which have predictable orbits, should deteriorate to nothing within 10,000 years. Why are there still Short Period Comets?
Jupiter is losing heat twice as fast as it gains it from the Sun (it is five times further from the Sun than Earth). Yet Jupiter is still hot. If it is billions of years old, shouldn't it have cooled off by now?
Jupiter's moon, Ganymede, which is roughly the size of Mercury, has a strong magnetic field, a possible indication that it is still hot. Why hasn't it cooled down?
Saturn's rings are not stable. They are drifting away from Saturn. If Saturn is billions of years old, why does it still have rings?
Lunar Recession. The moon is slowing moving farther away from the Earth. This has to do with the fact that the Earth’s spin is slowing down due to tidal friction and other factors. Lunar recession was first observed by Edmund Halley in late 1600s (the same Edmund Halley who is credited with being the first to predict the 76-year orbit of the famous comet which bears his name). Given the rate of lunar recession today, the fact that it has gradually accelerated over time, and upon taking several other factors into consideration, physicists have determined that the Earth-moon system could not have existed beyond 1.2 billion years (you can review the mathematical equations involved at http://www.creationscience.com/). This is 3.4 billion years less time than Old-Earth advocates are willing to accept. Furthermore, the closer the moon gets to the Earth, the greater its influence on our tides. We can’t go too far back in time before we would all drown twice a day.
The rotation of the earth is slowing at a fixed rate. We are losing one second every year and a half. If the young age of the earth is correct, then we've lost a little bit more than an hour in all, but if the old age of the earth is correct we've lost about seven hundred and fifty hours.
In 1999, the human population passed six billion. In 1985, it passed five billion. In 1962, it passed three billion. In 1800, it passed one billion. In 1 AD, the world's population, according to the censuses taken by the governments of that time, was only 250 million. At the current human population growth rate, considering wars and famines and all such variables, it would take approximately 5,000 years to get the current population from two original people.
Continental Erosion and Fossil Remains. The continents are eroding at such a rate that, if not for tectonic uplift, meteoric dusting and volcanic influx, they would erode flat (Mt. Everest and all) in less than 25 million years. At this rate, high-altitude million-year-old fossils should have long since eroded away. And yet they remain. The implication is that these fossils are not millions of years old. If this were true, the entire Geologic Column would need serious revision (see our article on the Geologic Column).
Subterranean Fluid Pressure. When a drill rig strikes oil, it sometimes gushes out in huge fountains. This is because the oil is often under huge amounts of pressure from the sheer weight of the rock sitting on top of it. Other subterranean fluids kept under pressure include natural gas and water. The problem is, the rock above many pressurized subterranean fluid deposits are relatively permeable. The pressure should escape in less than 100,000 years. And yet these deposits remain highly pressurized. Once again, because of the supposed antiquity of these deposits and their location throughout the Geologic Column, this observation calls into question some of the interpretations which have led to the formulation of the column.
Global Cooling. In the 19th Century, the renowned physicist and inventor Lord Kelvin (William Thomson) was the first to point out that if the Earth began in a white hot molten state, it would have cooled to its current temperature billions of years sooner than the 4.6 billion years accepted today. Since then, Old-Earth advocates have pointed out that radioactive decay within the Earth would greatly slow down the cooling process. Young-Earth advocates respond that even given liberal assumptions concerning the amount of heat produced by radioactive decay, the Earth would still cool to its current temperature much sooner than Old-Earth advocates allow.
There is more evidence against dating methods, the Geologic Column, the Big Bang, etc., but I don't have time to pull them all up off my computer. Now please understand that facts are very important to me. If you have proof disproving the young earth theory, please post it or e-mail it to me at expression@myself.com.
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rickcopeland648
The Phantom Teabagger
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| redraiderdude187 wrote: | | RUGoingUP wrote: | Sorry Hillbilly.
out of context...AGAIN!!!
First, it's God who's calling them fools, not me.
Second, I'm not angry.
Third, a 'brother' is a fellow believer, which he is not.
The Bible really DOES make sense, if you know how to read it.
Larry |
How you read it, or however more present-day acceptable you choose to interpret it? To quote your own book here, "Seek and ye shall find". Any book could be interpreted in a million different ways, especially one as sizable as the Bible, so don't give me this BS about "if you know how to read it". How can you alone decide what should be taken literally and what should be taken metaphorically?
| Quote: | False Gods and false religions were created by satan in order to get humans to worship him instead of God. What do you think Satan was doing in these verses, playing freeze tag. He was up to know good.
Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
He was creating false religions. Why do you think ALL ancient peoples worshipped serpents.
Humans aren't 190,000 years old. Those are what people with common sense called apes. The oldest known REAL HUMAN fossil dates back no more than 10,000 years |
Somebody's drinking the kool-aid! Have you ever even read a science book in your lifetime? Also, if no "real human" fossils date back more than 10000 years, then how does the rest of the scientific world get away while being completely wrong here? Pretty much every evolutionary biologist and anthropologist f***ed up the carbon dating, but you, probably the insurance salesman from Topeka, got it right because you took a theology class at the local Bible college and the next Ted Haggard told you to put the blinders on to science? Get a grip. It's high time people like you opened your eyes. |
Skip ahead a few days and to another thread:
| redraiderdude187 wrote: | | Is all of this fuss really going on off of a debate of a book written by traveling, hallucinating nomads? Take it easy, it isn't supposed to make sense. |
Hmm... Curiouser and curiouser...
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Booger
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyInABox wrote: | | I have to agree with the other Christians posting on this thread that the earth is somewhere around six thousand years old. However, I don't rely on faith to believe this. I mean, faith is all well and good, but solid evidence in the contrary outdoes it any day. So if the evidence points to an ancient earth, then your question is legitimate. But does it? ...[snip] |
That's a lot of hardcore science from vastly different fields of study. I suppose that you researched each and every one of these claims, correct? I suppose that you also have the technical background in all of these fields to understand the basics, right? You must be a god or something because I doubt that any human could do that.
But, wait... What's that you say? You mean you copy/pasted these from a creationist website? You mean you don't know where they came up with this stuff? You don't have a list of references? You don't actually understand what you're reading? You only believe it because some other Xtians told you that it's all true? Okay, it's becoming clear now.
Wait... Why, again, should we take you seriously? |
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smellnoevil
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| CrazyInABox wrote: | | I have to agree with the other Christians posting on this thread that the earth is somewhere around six thousand years old. However, I don't rely on faith to believe this. I mean, faith is all well and good, but solid evidence in the contrary outdoes it any day. So if the evidence points to an ancient earth, then your question is legitimate. But does it? |
I signed up to this forum just for this post. I seems to me that christians and creation scientists don't actually use the methods of science to discover "evidence" or follow the changes in science.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | Our oceans contain concentrations of Aluminum, Antinomy, Barium, Bicarbonate, Bismuth, Calcium, Carbonates, Chlorine, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Gold, Iron, Lead, Lithium, Manganese, Magnesium, Mercury, Molybdenum, Nickel, Potassium, Rubidium, Silicon, Silver, Sodium, Strontium, Sulfate, Thorium, Tin, Titanium, Tungsten, Uranium, and Zinc. The river systems add to these concentrations at fixed apparent rates. Comparing the amounts already in the oceans with the rates at which more are being dumped, indicates the earth, as well as its river systems and oceans, are fairly young.
Sediments are being eroded into our oceans at a fixed rate. There are only a few thousand years worth of sediments on the ocean floor. |
Thats because the ocean floor is only a few thousand years old. The entire ocean floor (and the rest of the crust) is on moving tectonic plates. Simply put the melted mantle oozes out in the mid ocean ridges because the plates pull apart. Next to the continental plates the ocean floor is forced under and melts again. This pressure is what pushes up the coastal mountains. So the entire ocean floor regenerates itself over a few thousand years thus only leaving that much sediment.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | The Earth's magnetic field has been accurately measured since 1829. Since 1829, it has decayed 7%. It is decaying exponentially at a fixed rate. By graphing the curve, we see that approximately 22,000 years ago the Earth's field would have been as strong as the Sun's. Life would have been impossible. |
The problem with this is that the earth has magnetic polarity shifts where the north and south pole switch places. The magnetic field decays before it reaches this polarity shift then rebuilds its strength soon after. This cycle of polarity shifts is what keeps the magnetic field strong. Also There is a vast difference in matter between the Sun and Earth, the Earth cannot have a magnetic field as strong as the Sun because it would have near the same mass.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | Comets are constantly losing matter. They are losing and losing and never gaining. "Short Period Comets" (like Haley's comet), which have predictable orbits, should deteriorate to nothing within 10,000 years. Why are there still Short Period Comets? |
Short period comets are Kuiper Belt Objects that have broken from their local gravity and pull towards the gravitation of the sun and planets. Most objects have the wrong combination of speed and trajectory to actually orbit the sun. Many zoom by and leave our solar system forever and some hit the sun and planets. The reason the comets still exist is there is a ton of matter floating in the Kuiper Belt.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | Jupiter is losing heat twice as fast as it gains it from the Sun (it is five times further from the Sun than Earth). Yet Jupiter is still hot. If it is billions of years old, shouldn't it have cooled off by now? |
The sun it not the only source of heat. Gravity creates pressure and heats things by friction. In the sun the pressure and friction heat built to the point that the atoms started fusion. As for Jupiter its heat is created by the same friction from the pressure of gravity. All through space we have discovered planets that output more heat than they take in. Some scientists note that Jupiter is like a failed second star for our solar system as most star systems are binary.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | Jupiter's moon, Ganymede, which is roughly the size of Mercury, has a strong magnetic field, a possible indication that it is still hot. Why hasn't it cooled down? |
Jupiter's gravity also warps this little moon and creates the same kind of friction heat.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | Saturn's rings are not stable. They are drifting away from Saturn. If Saturn is billions of years old, why does it still have rings? |
This is simple, Saturn is billions of years old but it's rings are not. They will be gone eventually.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | Lunar Recession. The moon is slowing moving farther away from the Earth. This has to do with the fact that the Earth’s spin is slowing down due to tidal friction and other factors. Lunar recession was first observed by Edmund Halley in late 1600s (the same Edmund Halley who is credited with being the first to predict the 76-year orbit of the famous comet which bears his name). Given the rate of lunar recession today, the fact that it has gradually accelerated over time, and upon taking several other factors into consideration, physicists have determined that the Earth-moon system could not have existed beyond 1.2 billion years (you can review the mathematical equations involved at http://www.creationscience.com/). This is 3.4 billion years less time than Old-Earth advocates are willing to accept. Furthermore, the closer the moon gets to the Earth, the greater its influence on our tides. We can’t go too far back in time before we would all drown twice a day.
The rotation of the earth is slowing at a fixed rate. We are losing one second every year and a half. If the young age of the earth is correct, then we've lost a little bit more than an hour in all, but if the old age of the earth is correct we've lost about seven hundred and fifty hours. |
In the early development of the Earth a Mars-sized object crashed into what was a smaller Earth. This impact spewed hot metals and gases into space that orbited and eventually formed the moon. At this time the Earth spun incredibly slow. It was the impact of this Mars-sized object that sped up the earth's day and caused both the wobble of the earth and the moon. The orbit of the moon and the rotation of the earth are still stabilizing. Eventually the moon will be tidally locked to one spot on over the earth. The earth will spin as fast as the moon orbits, much slower than it does now.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | In 1999, the human population passed six billion. In 1985, it passed five billion. In 1962, it passed three billion. In 1800, it passed one billion. In 1 AD, the world's population, according to the censuses taken by the governments of that time, was only 250 million. At the current human population growth rate, considering wars and famines and all such variables, it would take approximately 5,000 years to get the current population from two original people. |
The problem here is the 5,000 year estimation is based on CURRENT population growth rate. Life expectancy is much higher now (lower death rates) and people are having more healthy kids (higher birth rate). For thousands of years the death rate and birth rate would have been almost equal. When humans developed sustainable agriculture and hygiene is when the population started to boom.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | Continental Erosion and Fossil Remains. The continents are eroding at such a rate that, if not for tectonic uplift, meteoric dusting and volcanic influx, they would erode flat (Mt. Everest and all) in less than 25 million years. At this rate, high-altitude million-year-old fossils should have long since eroded away. And yet they remain. The implication is that these fossils are not millions of years old. If this were true, the entire Geologic Column would need serious revision (see our article on the Geologic Column). |
From my knowledge not many high altitude fossils have been found, because of the difficulty to climb Mt. Everest and build a dig site. Different type of rocks should erode at different rates, but fossils should be found in sedimentary layers. I can't honestly make any claims here without knowing the erosion factors of the area that high altitude fossils were found in.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | Subterranean Fluid Pressure. When a drill rig strikes oil, it sometimes gushes out in huge fountains. This is because the oil is often under huge amounts of pressure from the sheer weight of the rock sitting on top of it. Other subterranean fluids kept under pressure include natural gas and water. The problem is, the rock above many pressurized subterranean fluid deposits are relatively permeable. The pressure should escape in less than 100,000 years. And yet these deposits remain highly pressurized. Once again, because of the supposed antiquity of these deposits and their location throughout the Geologic Column, this observation calls into question some of the interpretations which have led to the formulation of the column. |
The pressure sometimes does escape (the ones that don't gush out the top have to be pressurized to pump out the oil). If the oil gushes out then it obviously wasn't in permeable enough rock to release the pressure. You have to also remember that the earth is molten deep down and pressure can build or renew from below.
| CrazyInABox wrote: | | Global Cooling. In the 19th Century, the renowned physicist and inventor Lord Kelvin (William Thomson) was the first to point out that if the Earth began in a white hot molten state, it would have cooled to its current temperature billions of years sooner than the 4.6 billion years accepted today. Since then, Old-Earth advocates have pointed out that radioactive decay within the Earth would greatly slow down the cooling process. Young-Earth advocates respond that even given liberal assumptions concerning the amount of heat produced by radioactive decay, the Earth would still cool to its current temperature much sooner than Old-Earth advocates allow. |
With the earliest life appearing about 4 billion years ago the earth would have to be cool enough to have some kind of crust then. Not a lot is know about the inside the earth. Most is know through seismic wave experiments. As for the reason for the temperature in the core there is a newer theory that fast breeder nuclear reactor type reactions occur in the core of Earth.
Most creation scientist's work and the stuff the Discovery Institute puts out is based on old science. They act like we already know everything they way that "god" claims to know everything. Science is a fluid changing field that you have to stay up to date with to understand the claims. |
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benyjets23
Royal Citizen
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Hey,
For the record: I am a Christian (Evangelical Roman Catholic). I am an old Earther and an Evolutionist. I have been hooked on evolution since the first Jurassic Park came in 1994. I am interested in the works of Hugh Ross. But I fall in the camp of Francis Collins, John Polkinghorne and others.
I also think it is ironic that my one post essentialy ended the value of the thread as it stems from the original post, and yet no one seems to notice or care. I guess the argument is more important than truth, facts and proper conclusions.
Ben |
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