| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
excidius
Irreducible Simplicity
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 912
Local time: 9:01 AM
Location: San Jose, CA USA
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
  |
|
| pjanzen wrote: | | Quote: | | Before her relapse on Wednesday, Lilly told the station her biggest frustration was learning how to talk again. |
She can learn to speak again in 3 days? WTF? Who writes this shit?
| Quote: | | After years of being fed from a tube, eating was no problem. “I’ve been eating cake,” she said. |
Are you serious? She has to learn to speak but she can form sentences about eating cake.... after only a few days?
I am confused...this does not make sense...oh wait never mind, her mom said God is involved...Makes sense now.  |
Don't take it too literally. It's not uncommon for people with brain damage to uncover lost memories in a short amount of time. Actually, even people without damage to their nervous system can recover lost memories in a short time. For instance, I used to play guitar, but stopped for the past 3 years. I recently took it up again, and it was a little awkward, but after a week, it all came back for the most part.
_________________
"Atheists are the driving force behind what I call Big Secularism. Card-carrying members of BS have snaked their way into every branch of our government, except for the judicial and executive. Did you know that in the House of Representatives and the Senate, there are as many as one self-described atheist currently serving? Democratic Representative Pete Stark of California's 13th district, to name just one." -Stephen Colbert |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
|
Sultan Borat
Royal Citizen
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Local time: 12:01 PM
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
This case inst a Vegetative carrot like Sciavo , The Media is attempting to grab viewers by exploiting the Terri Sciavo case and make a story out of something that inst that extraordinary,They now finally admit it so they are backtracking everything on CNN about vegitation, remember when there was a "lock in case" and a women managed to snap out of a Paralysis and the save the hunk of meat "Terri Sciavo" band wagon went into a up roar without even looking at the distinct medical differences same thing.
The woman was a regular Comatose case her "higher Brain functions" have not dissolved into fluid, They have just been damaged like any head trauma victim who falls into Comatose state, but their is plenty of people who awaken out of that within a 5-6 year span receive months of rehabilitation and many go back to live fairly normal lives. Her Relapse was because she fell asleep against advisement from due to the fatigue of being 3 days awake straight, Had she merely remained awake she never would have lapsed again into unconsciousness but in all likeliness she stands a very good chance of reemerging a again. Pretty much the media has cooked up a story that has potential for later follow up and ratings if you get my drift.
The only unique thing is that she was in semi consciousness, In the middle for a while and before she came back to life they feared it could have been collapse into vegitation , But all it was us that she was breaking through about to remerge.
I have seen video clips of this women talking " Oh I feel like cake" its no bullshit , Turn on CNN they probably repeat the story or You tube by now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tinker683
Entirely Too Serious
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 1061
Local time: 12:01 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow, talk about a heart wrenching affair.
To have someone you love so dearly be in a comatose state, then come out of that state, and then slip right back into it?
Wow. I don't drink, but if I was in this situation, I'd seriously considering taking it up. I'm not sure I could deal with this so well.
Like the mother, I hope that the next time she awakens, it will be permanant.
_________________
"Not everything that steps out of line, and thus 'abnormal', must necessarily be 'inferior'" - Hans Asperger, 1938 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ShaSha
Forum Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 4945
Local time: 11:01 AM
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nimitz wrote: | | God gets none of the blame. No matter what happens. Blind devotion. |
How do yoiu know that? What evidence do you have that she didn't blame god or doesn't blame god occasionally? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ShaSha
Forum Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 4945
Local time: 11:01 AM
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pjanzen wrote: | ShaSha:
| Quote: | | Pjanzen at least asks a few good questions but then ends it with an attack on the woman's beliefs. |
while I said:
| Quote: | | I am confused...this does not make sense...oh wait never mind, her mom said God is involved...Makes sense now. Wink |
How is my stating that that her mom's explaning the situation by her belief that God was involved, attacking her faith. My actual intention was to raise the question of why is it that God is the only explaination? Why did the reporters not dive deeper into the scientific aspect, maybe referrencing other cases beside the Terry Shrivo case, which is the only one that everyone knows about? Why did they not ask more questions of other doctors?
My point was that this country is full of people, much like you Sasha, who automatically think the first explination they get(which in your case, was your judgement that I was attacking her faith) is a valid one. I was being a bit sarcastic, however, I was trying to show how christians automatically assume god's involvement.
With out asking futher questions, we often find ourselves looking like ignorant people. |
I saw you give some fair questions first which is what I mention in quoting you. Then I see you give up on your own questioning so that you can play the god card. Your statement does make you look like you are ignorant although I have no idea of your intelligence so don't take it personally.
Nobody has evidence of anything having to do with her god belief including myself. What we do have is one statement out of several that references god and that is made the issue. I see a woman who takes care of another human being lovingly it appears in her home for possibly six years. I see a woman who has hope for a permanent cure. Nothing wrong in that.
God is what many christians believe in and many also believe in science. I expect that if the shoe was on your foot you would question what science can do or not do for you. If science gave you a few days with your loved one you might mention science in passing when you are discussing the case.
For me the issue of interest is what the topic is This case is scientificially interesting. What details are known? Instead of finding intelligent comments and a discussion per the title of the thread, I was disappointed to see in this thread that it was one more occasion to bash anybody that mentions god with the exception of a few as I mentioned. If I can get some of the not so deep thinkers on this forum to think a bit more broadly about human beings, it's worth a try.
I agree that the reporters can dig deeper and that is why I always look for other sources and sometimes find them. The 3 videos give more details and that is why I linked them. Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN did ask more questions of another doctor last nite. I expect you can read his archives soon and see what thoughts he had if you are really interested in what other doctors say. I know I was glad to get another viewpoint but even then comas are unique and this is an individual case and that is what made it interesting for me to begin with. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rickcopeland648
The Phantom Teabagger
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3021
Local time: 5:01 PM
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ShaSha wrote: | | Nimitz wrote: | | God gets none of the blame. No matter what happens. Blind devotion. |
How do yoiu know that? What evidence do you have that she didn't blame god or doesn't blame god occasionally? |
I believe he's speaking in terms of broad generalizations. The woman might well blame God at times, however, often these same people will rationalize it by reminding themselves that God doesn't give them anything they cannot overcome. They view this through a mental lense that makes it look like their mettle is being tested...
From a vantage point of psychology I can see why this would be very attractive. Life can be very difficult and some people really suffer. I mean REALLY suffer. Not suffer in the Brittney Spears sence...
Nimitz does have a very valid point. People often do praise God for their success without acknowledging God as the cause of their failure. But I think most of us on this board realize the individual themself bears the brunt of the burden and the praise....
_________________
“I think it’s also important for the President to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
-- George W. Bush on Clinton's involvement in Kosovo, 1999
"Syphilis is the algebra of infection."
(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
Can't... fight... any... longer... must.. help.. bunny.. achieve.. global.. domination.. All.. hail... bunny...
-------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjanzen
Visitor
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 19
Local time: 12:01 PM
Location: Amarillo, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
ShaSha, no harm meant or anything...just friendly banter, thanks for linking those videos. Later.
_________________
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities. Voltaire
Religion is the Opiate of the masses. Karl Marx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 4903
Local time: 1:01 PM
Location: Wilmington, DE
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ShaSha wrote: | | BarkAt the Moon brought compassion in his comments throughout until the last senstence. |
It wasn't about compassion or lack thereof, it was about recognizing the mindset and religious system that makes people delude themselves and live in this detached fantasy world where magical beings watch over them. If it helps her get through the day than more power to her, but it doesn't make it a good thing because sometimes a little dose of reality is necessary. Terri Schiavo's parents were a good example of that.
| ShaSha wrote: | Hey, because none of you have the stamina to be able to bear a situation like this, don't be putting the caretaker down. If you search for other articles on this case, the mother hopes that at this time next year, her daughter will be awake permanently.
|
And this proves it, because I'm sure she does hope that by next year her daughter will be awake permanently. Just as she has for the past 6 years, and those little nuggets of hope from these times when she wakes up for a day or so string along hope for another year. That's why this seems so much worse than Schiavo's case. Maybe she will wake up for good, but I don't see any reason, medical or otherwise, in this story that would really give anyone that much hope for it. It's just a roll of the dice on the craps table, betting the farm on a hard eight. Once in a while, someone is gonna hit it, but whether it's this case or not, it won't be a miracle in the cosmic sense of the word.
I agree with you that on a purely scientific and medical basis this case really is pretty fascinating that these "awake" times can even happen. The human brain is capable of some pretty outlandish things sometimes, especially when the body has been damaged.
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
Last edited by BarkAtTheMoon on Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ShaSha
Forum Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 4945
Local time: 11:01 AM
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pjanzen wrote: | | ShaSha, no harm meant or anything...just friendly banter, thanks for linking those videos. Later. |
Thanks for the thanks and the inquiring mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 4903
Local time: 1:01 PM
Location: Wilmington, DE
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rickcopeland648 wrote: |
Nimitz does have a very valid point. People often do praise God for their success without acknowledging God as the cause of their failure. But I think most of us on this board realize the individual themself bears the brunt of the burden and the praise.... |
Prime example of that is the mental backflips a lot of people did after the 2004 tsunami to still justify their faith in God. There's no freewill copout there, although they tried blaming some gay Swedish people, and blaming Satan would only mean God's too weak to stop it so all they have is an act of God that stuck it in and broke it off...or a scientifically explainable tragic event that had nothing to do with any supernatural being. I honestly can't see how anyone could continue to believe an all-powerful and all-loving God could possibly exist after that.
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ApostateLois
Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 2066
Local time: 1:01 AM
Location: In space, with a traffic cone
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Chrisitans are taught in church that God is good. If something is repeated often enough, especially from earliest childhood, people tend to believe in it wholeheartedly, even to the point of ignoring any kind of logic and reasoning. The Bible shows God as being vindictive, spiteful, angry, jealous, and bad-tempered, never doing anything without using violence or the threat of violence; this fact is ignored in favor of the teaching that God is always good and kind. Thus, if bad things happen, it cannot be God's fault--it must be the fault of Satan or some person, or else God is testing you to see if you're good enough to get into heaven.
I am sure that poor woman thinks of this every day. She must wonder what sin she or her daughter committed to deserve this punishment, or when the testing will end so that they can live a normal life. If she ever does blame God, she immediately feels guilty, thinking God will be angry for her lack of belief. She probably feels that she MUST remain faithful, no matter what, or else God will be angry and not give her back her daughter. Yes, it is pathetic, and it's even sadder that she thinks of her daughter's brief awakenings as gifts from her God. She doesn't stop to consider that if this deity exists, he apparently is deliberately giving her false hopes for his own sadistic pleasure, teasing her to prolong her misery. I know if I were a Christian in a similar situation, such thoughts would never have entered my mind--I was just too brainwashed, and she is, too.
And btw, I don't like the reference to comatose people as "carrots" or "vegetables." It seems disrespectful, to me, like making fun of them for something they can't help.
_________________
Kryten: Don't you believe that God exists in all things? Aren't you a Pantheist?
Lister: Yeah, I just don't think it applies to kitchen utensils. I'm not a Fryingpantheist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AiiA
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 2542
Local time: 12:01 PM
Location: Inside your head
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
edit - i deleted my silly opinion after watching the videos from shasha link. 
Last edited by AiiA on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:59 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kmisho
Stochastic
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 4654
Local time: 3:01 AM
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ShaSha wrote: | Hey, because none of you have the stamina to be able to bear a situation like this, don't be putting the caretaker down. If you search for other articles on this case, the mother hopes that at this time next year, her daughter will be awake permanently.
What is the difference whether she hopes that god comes through or natural happenings? It is nobody's business except the family's. That she is greatful for the brief times she has had her daughter be lucid and especially greatful for this longest time, I can understand.
I wouldn't want such an event in my life but if it happened, I would be hoping that a cure would be possible. Whether through nature or science, I would care not. Maybe this case will help neurological studies and enable experts to actually awaken people like her. I know I myself would be fascinated by these intervals and would document as much as is possible of it.
I expect the mother has happy events around her as well as her daughter's care. To say that she is pathetic is to undermine the human spirit.
Videos of events are here.
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/6347997.html |
I would be impressed with her human spirit if she didn't have to prop herself with magic-belief. People who think like this disturb me. They are grasping at straws to avoid reality, which is pathetic (pathetique, meaning tragic). Maintaining hope and living in a fantasy that everything will be fine are 2 different things.
_________________
K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ShaSha
Forum Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 4945
Local time: 11:01 AM
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kmisho wrote: | | ShaSha wrote: | Hey, because none of you have the stamina to be able to bear a situation like this, don't be putting the caretaker down. If you search for other articles on this case, the mother hopes that at this time next year, her daughter will be awake permanently.
What is the difference whether she hopes that god comes through or natural happenings? It is nobody's business except the family's. That she is greatful for the brief times she has had her daughter be lucid and especially greatful for this longest time, I can understand.
I wouldn't want such an event in my life but if it happened, I would be hoping that a cure would be possible. Whether through nature or science, I would care not. Maybe this case will help neurological studies and enable experts to actually awaken people like her. I know I myself would be fascinated by these intervals and would document as much as is possible of it.
I expect the mother has happy events around her as well as her daughter's care. To say that she is pathetic is to undermine the human spirit.
Videos of events are here.
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/6347997.html |
I would be impressed with her human spirit if she didn't have to prop herself with magic-belief. People who think like this disturb me. They are grasping at straws to avoid reality, which is pathetic (pathetique, meaning tragic). Maintaining hope and living in a fantasy that everything will be fine are 2 different things. |
You know nothing of her religious beliefs. I know nothing of it. You know only that she mentioned god once as having been instrumental in this awakening. What I said though is a woman who if she is this person's biological mother is over sixty years old and is taking care of her daughter in her home. That is what the second most interesting part is to me. The first most interesting part is that the daughter is coming out of the coma for longer periods of time.
That you are disturbed by this woman's belief shows more about your own lack of possible challenges? If you've had any so called tragedy in your own life, you would know that avoiding that constant reality is just part of coping with any tragedy and healing its' impact on you. Even if that avoidance is a simple as reading a book or playing a video game or going to a movie or taking a walk. So quit being disturbed over such a small issue such as "your imagination" of somebody else's god belief and get on with your own life and be greatful if you haven't had any tragedies to contend with. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Live Video and Chat Room
Freethought Videos
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
