omni: science/presence/potence

danzr7777 · Visitor Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 1 Local time: 9:22 PM

I've noticed that in a lot of questions that are raised by both Christians and non, there is a running theme of not understanding the omniscience, omnipotence, omni-, immi-, in-, un-, etc. etc. etc. of God. Try finding any one of those words in the Bible.

You won't. Sure sure, there's hints towards them ("you know all the hairs on my head, when the sparrow falls, know a man's heart," etc.). But this was (yet another) impact of the Grecian philosophers on Christianity. Once again (as in so many other cases) Christians attempted to reconcile their beliefs with the mainstream philosophy of the day. Much as Christians try to do now.

I'm wondering if this has been brought up before, but if anyone has ever had a question about the logical implications of God knowing everything/being all-powerful/being everywhere/never changing I highly suggest this book:
"The Openness of God" by Clark Pinnock.

No, it's not heresy, this idea has actually been debated by theologists and philosophers alike for many years. Some have identified with Pinnock's position.

Or, if you want the quick version without buying the book
a) Google it.
b) Go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Theism

Hope this helps, or at least starts a dialogue of some sort.
Thanks.
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Sal1981 · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:36 am Post subject:

Well, that horse was beaten to an inch of its life and shot to put it out of its misery by our great-great-great-grandfathers. But sure, let's have some fun and dig up the bones and have another whack at it.
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kmisho · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:14 am Post subject:

Simply, the problem with open theism is it makes god into a person, with the same abilities as a person but differeing only in degree. Such an entity is not worth worshipping. It is not superior to us except in terms of raw ability. This god could even have evolved, in which case it would be incorrect to say that it has always existed. In my view, such a god is not even worth acknowledging and therefore allows a theology tantamount to atheism EVEN IF such a non-god exists.
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Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
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You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
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neon · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:25 am Post subject:

I don't mean to be crude, but if God couldn't be omni-all sorts of stuff, what would be the point? It'd just be a fairly powerful but not-supreme Whatsis. Sort of the only animal of its species. Bigger or stronger than other things, but not 'ultimate' in any sense.

And if God needed to live in or interact with our universe, with everything else in it being non-supreme just like us, once again--what would be the point?

It sounds like God had to go and get a job, like all of us. It had to find something to do, or it couldn't call itself 'God.'

Sad, really.

It'd be like having a language that is spoken only by one creature. No matter how much it would shout and point, it couldn't really communicate much with other people.

That kind of god is, at best, a museum oddity.
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AiiA · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject:

I have to give the majority of xians credit for inventiveness and fortitude in trying to revise their beliefs so it makes sense.
It seems that muslims simply want to kill anyone who try to change or resist islamic dogma.
Xianity will probably end up being the last theistic belief system before the human race finally gives up on the god concept, hopefully sometime in the near future.

Iliketofrolic666 · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject:

CET · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject:

Sal1981 · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject:

fjord_byron

Most people are coerced (in the case of Islam and perhaps Hinduism), or practice a religion because it is their heritage, because religion organizations are critical for social order and security, or out of lack of investigation of alternatives. There are many true believers, but democratic reforms, womens' rights, better education, health, material benefit, 100s of millions would turn from their religion in a decade or so. IMO, religion will survive, but it will have to change to be accepted in this future world.
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