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hillbillyatheist Administrator


Joined: 29 Jun 2004 Posts: 15987 Local time: 5:44 AM Location: Denver Colorado.
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rock Forum Master


Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2008 Local time: 2:44 AM Location: WA

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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:21 am Post subject: |
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My list is shorter.
1. Be reasonable.
2. Be logical.
3. Be open. _________________ We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all
That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised lands |
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Uncertainty Forum Master


Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Posts: 3414 Local time: 5:44 AM Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: |
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I don't really like it when people try to make atheist rules or symbols. :O
But some of these don't really seem like good rules anyway I don't think. Maybe I'm just nitpicking or something. |
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AiiA

Joined: 26 Mar 2004 Posts: 2542 Local time: 5:44 AM Location: Inside your head

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1. Try to Treat others as you would want to have them treat you. | I don’t see anything wrong with this one.
| Quote: | | 2. Be Truthful and honest even if inconvenient or uncomfortable. | It is not always good to be truthful, if the truth will result in serious harm.
| Quote: | | 3. Treat the environment and all life with reverence ensuring it's improvement by virtue of preventing loss, injury or any other harmful change. | In reference to nature - with reverence in general? I don’t think so, although nature can be enjoyable I revere only certain things in particular. Some manmade environments are very enjoyable also. All life? I would like to see harmful bacteria, viruses, rabid dogs and such, and terrorists killed.
| Quote: | | 4. Determine what is moral in your own mind, not what others dictate morality should be. | Ah..wasn’t that what the first 3 was about? Done.
| Quote: | | 5. Never feel absolutely certain of anything and question everything, be they bibles, history or science books. | I agree.
| Quote: | | 6. Never discourage expression of free thought, regardless of the subject matter or personal opinion. | I disagree. An imam (or other religious nut) who encourages others to kill and to conquer the world and preaches hate should be told to shut the fuck up.
| Quote: | | 7. Aggressively prohibit oppressive authority in defense that all people are born free and equal in dignity and rights without distinction of any kind. | This contradicts number 6 doesn’t it? But, I agree (Iraq, anyone?).
| Quote: | | 8. Do not fear to be in the minority, for the majority is not always one that rules without prejudice. | Obviously.
| Quote: | | 9. Show concern fo the welfare of others, help those that are less fortunate than yourself. | This is similar to number 1.
| Quote: | | 10. Enjoy yourself and others, always living your life to the fullest. | lol I have to laugh at this one because one cannot go through life without trying to enjoy it.
It’s silly to limit the list to 10. |
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lumpymunk Forum Master


Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 2141 Local time: 5:44 AM
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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The Term "Commandments" is a limitation in itself, because commandments limit you're choice and reduce morality to an if/then statement that is incredibly insufficient. Commandments are a statement of a predefined accepted morality. A 'moral commandment' is a contradiction in terms. The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments. _________________ “Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNOPu_wU6hs |
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CruciFiction Forum Plebian


Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 166 Local time: 5:44 AM
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: | | The Term "Commandments" is a limitation in itself, because commandments limit you're choice and reduce morality to an if/then statement that is incredibly insufficient. Commandments are a statement of a predefined accepted morality. A 'moral commandment' is a contradiction in terms. The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments. |
I have to commend you on that excellent post! _________________ "It worries me about religion in that it teaches people to be satisfied with not understanding." ~ Richard Dawkins |
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tonyman1989 Forum Master


Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 2461 Local time: 6:44 AM Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Quote:
2. Be Truthful and honest even if inconvenient or uncomfortable.
It is not always good to be truthful, if the truth will result in serious harm.
Quote:
4. Determine what is moral in your own mind, not what others dictate morality should be.
Ah..wasn’t that what the first 3 was about? Done.
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I think being honest is great, but If you lie to prevent harm that would fall under number 4 _________________ "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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pjanzen Visitor


Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 19 Local time: 5:44 AM Location: Amarillo, TX
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I believe that just calling these "10 philosophies to live by" would be better than calling them "commandments". _________________
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities. Voltaire
Religion is the Opiate of the masses. Karl Marx |
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louiswin2 Royal Citizen

Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 471 Local time: 5:44 AM
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Steve Dowell over at Positive Deism has the best quote I have ever seen regarding this subject.
"Reason and Respect in all you think, say and do".
| pjanzen wrote: | | I believe that just calling these "10 philosophies to live by" would be better than calling them "commandments". |
I agree with this. |
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tonyman1989 Forum Master


Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 2461 Local time: 6:44 AM Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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same here. _________________ "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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transientangent Forum Leader


Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 1638 Local time: 8:44 PM
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Number 4 conflicts with the first 3. The first three give you ethical rules and number 4 tells you not to bother with them anyways.
I'd also like to see some arguments regarding why these are ideal conventions. _________________ everything is changing
a constant flow
our existence - a photograph
the time - like slow-motion
did someone realize
that our life is based
on the history we've been taught
we are living the results of a lie
Project Pitchfork - "Existence"
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pjanzen Visitor


Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 19 Local time: 5:44 AM Location: Amarillo, TX
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| transientangent wrote: |
I'd also like to see some arguments regarding why these are ideal conventions. |
Do you have an arguement that these are not ideal conventions?
If so, then would that not be your take on them?
Would your arguements not just be reflections of your own personal ideals and moral beliefs reflected onto these philosophies?
If you can have your own take on them, and just say that others should back up why they are ideal, why should we not hear your arguments as to why they are not?
I may be reading this wrong, you may just be trying to spark conversation in a specific direction, but either way it is something to think about...
Freethought allows us to see these groups of words as either ideal conventions, or contradictory rubbish...but the key here is to realize we all the the ability to choose our interpretation for ourselves.
I do see what you are talking about, how # 4 could contradict the first 3.
That seems to happen a lot when we start coming up with a group of philosophical ideals, we coming up with something that sounds good, but when looked at in the context of the entire group of ideas, it cancels out something from before... _________________
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities. Voltaire
Religion is the Opiate of the masses. Karl Marx |
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BobSpence1 Forum Master


Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Posts: 2022 Local time: 8:44 PM Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1. Try to Treat others as you would want to have them treat you. |
Better would be "Treat others as you best understand they would like to be treated." _________________ "To a committed free-thinker, blasphemy is not a crime but a duty" - me
"I believe that when I die , I will rot" - Bertrand Russell
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
Favorite oxymorons:
Business ethics
Gospel truth
Rational supernaturalist |
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tonyman1989 Forum Master


Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 2461 Local time: 6:44 AM Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: |
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I found these and thought they more detailed.
http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/ten_commandments.html _________________ "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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BobSpence1 Forum Master


Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Posts: 2022 Local time: 8:44 PM Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: |
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It certainly is not difficult to improve on the traditionally quoted Ten Commandments, let alone the ones actually referred to in the Bible as the "Ten Commandments" (Exodus 34), which were alleged to be the same as on the first set of tablets, which were broken, and which were actually almost completely different, and were all purely ritualistic requirements, like "Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk.".
When the classic set does not include admonishments against things like rape and torture, and does include trivialities like "not coveting your neighbour's wife etc", they deserve to be treated as a sick joke. _________________ "To a committed free-thinker, blasphemy is not a crime but a duty" - me
"I believe that when I die , I will rot" - Bertrand Russell
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
Favorite oxymorons:
Business ethics
Gospel truth
Rational supernaturalist |
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