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abstract atheist
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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
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 Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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I am at a certain university (you can guess which one by looking at my location) trying to become a theoretical physisist. But I am really a closet philosopher(don't turn me in), obsessed with understanding the metaphysical implications of physical theories. If some aspect of string theory turned out to be true, would it have any impact on religion? I don't see how it couldn't. Some people have tried to unify Christianity and string theory,but these "Christian string models" have God made out of strings living in other dimensions. The strongest religious implications of string theory, and theoretical physics in general, would be if there were many other universes. If there were infinitley many universes with self-aware beings, there would be infinitely many self-aware beings. Even an infinite God might not be able to keep up with what everyone is doing. When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, did this cause death and decay in the other universes? Ok,ok, I have to stop talking about Adam and Eve. But its so crazy, and so many people believe it. But it's only one subset of one religion. The implications of science affect all religions. Even the deists have to explain why God left everything to chance, you know, with quantum mechanics and all.
_________________
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.
Father: Son, I don't want you hanging around Steve any more, I think he might be gay.
Son: He better be gay, he's my boyfriend. |
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Wickedtruth
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Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 2087
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| abstract atheist wrote: | | But I am really a closet philosopher(don't turn me in) |
Too late! I already called the thought police on you! You're in trouble buddy.
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Dawkadoodle
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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Step back to reality. |
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GodWarrior98
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Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Easy answer. God works in mysterious ways. Considering the religious implications of a scientific theory is an insult to that theory.
_________________
In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite. -Paul Dirac
I am not a theist. The name is a lie. |
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 6674
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Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| GodWarrior98 wrote: | | Easy answer. God works in mysterious ways. Considering the religious implications of a scientific theory is an insult to that theory. |
As if Christians give a shit about how insulting to the intellect of others their use of words like "know" "truth" and "real" is.
_________________
~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code. |
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GodWarrior98
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Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Jutter wrote: | | GodWarrior98 wrote: | | Easy answer. God works in mysterious ways. Considering the religious implications of a scientific theory is an insult to that theory. |
As if Christians give a shit about how insulting to the intellect of others their use of words like "know" "truth" and "real" is. |
Science doesn't need to degrade itself by stooping anywhere near religion.
_________________
In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite. -Paul Dirac
I am not a theist. The name is a lie. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 10:17 AM
Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| abstract atheist wrote: | | I am at a certain university (you can guess which one by looking at my location) trying to become a theoretical physisist. But I am really a closet philosopher(don't turn me in), obsessed with understanding the metaphysical implications of physical theories. If some aspect of string theory turned out to be true, would it have any impact on religion? I don't see how it couldn't. Some people have tried to unify Christianity and string theory,but these "Christian string models" have God made out of strings living in other dimensions. The strongest religious implications of string theory, and theoretical physics in general, would be if there were many other universes. If there were infinitley many universes with self-aware beings, there would be infinitely many self-aware beings. Even an infinite God might not be able to keep up with what everyone is doing. When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, did this cause death and decay in the other universes? Ok,ok, I have to stop talking about Adam and Eve. But its so crazy, and so many people believe it. But it's only one subset of one religion. The implications of science affect all religions. Even the deists have to explain why God left everything to chance, you know, with quantum mechanics and all. |
Ha, that would be simple. All a theist would need to do is convinced that one of the most crucial calculation in String Theory, the one that gives you Dimension = 26,
∞
∑ n=-1/12
n=1
can only be true if there is a God, and you're screwed... |
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abstract atheist
Forum Leader
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 526
Local time: 10:17 AM
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: |
∞
∑ n=-1/12
n=1
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I still don't understand why summing over all the positive integers gives you -1/12. When I first saw this in a string theory book, me and my best friend almost died laughing. But now that I am trying to do theoretical physics, it's not funny any more. But why -1/12? I understand that you can anylitically continue the rieman zeta function, evaluate it at -1, and claim that this is the sum over all positive integers. But
∞
∑ n
n=1
does not converge by the integral test. It seems dangerous to base physical predictions on diverging series. But I suppose I will understand it when I study regularization and renormalization in QFT. Then I ccan just sweep the infinities under the rug.
_________________
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.
Father: Son, I don't want you hanging around Steve any more, I think he might be gay.
Son: He better be gay, he's my boyfriend. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 10:17 AM
Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| abstract atheist wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: |
∞
∑ n=-1/12
n=1
|
I still don't understand why summing over all the positive integers gives you -1/12. When I first saw this in a string theory book, me and my best friend almost died laughing. But now that I am trying to do theoretical physics, it's not funny any more. But why -1/12? I understand that you can anylitically continue the rieman zeta function, evaluate it at -1, and claim that this is the sum over all positive integers. But
∞
∑ n
n=1
does not converge by the integral test. It seems dangerous to base physical predictions on diverging series. But I suppose I will understand it when I study regularization and renormalization in QFT. Then I ccan just sweep the infinities under the rug. |
I had an interestiong series of letters with Joseph Polchinski on that matter. It was resolved when he pointed out the Virasoro algebra. When you get there, you'll understand what I mean. |
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OrdinaryClay
Royal Citizen
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 384
Local time: 10:17 AM
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| abstract atheist wrote: |
But I am really a closet philosopher(don't turn me in), obsessed with understanding the metaphysical implications of physical theories.
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Don't let them kid you; they all have the same obsession.
| abstract atheist wrote: |
there would be infinitely many self-aware beings. Even an infinite God might not be able to keep up with what everyone is doing
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Degrees of infinity is not a new concept.
You seem overly optimistic in your faith that our understanding will be physically complete. From an evolutionary standpoint our brains may have evolved in such a way as to make that not possible. |
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abstract atheist
Forum Leader
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 526
Local time: 10:17 AM
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| OrdinaryClay wrote: | | From an evolutionary standpoint our brains may have evolved in such a way as to make that not possible. |
I am aware of that. But I do wonder what the boundaries of human thought are.
_________________
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.
Father: Son, I don't want you hanging around Steve any more, I think he might be gay.
Son: He better be gay, he's my boyfriend. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 10:17 AM
Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| abstract atheist wrote: |
I am aware of that. But I do wonder what the boundaries of human thought are. |
Itsokay, we've got lots of time to find out -- 5 billions years to go before the sun goes blink on us...  |
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 6674
Local time: 4:17 PM
Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| GodWarrior98 wrote: | | Jutter wrote: | | GodWarrior98 wrote: | | Easy answer. God works in mysterious ways. Considering the religious implications of a scientific theory is an insult to that theory. |
As if Christians give a shit about how insulting to the intellect of others their use of words like "know" "truth" and "real" is. |
Science doesn't need to degrade itself by stooping anywhere near religion. |
Should I write that down as a distaste for religion?
_________________
~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code. |
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OrdinaryClay
Royal Citizen
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 384
Local time: 10:17 AM
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | abstract atheist wrote: |
I am aware of that. But I do wonder what the boundaries of human thought are. |
Itsokay, we've got lots of time to find out -- 5 billions years to go before the sun goes blink on us... |
You seem overly optimistic in your faith in our physical future.
Even if we do survive as a species, I see no evidence that selective pressure toward brains to understand string theory and beyond is any greater now then it ever has been. |
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jambrose
billions and billions
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 578
Local time: 11:17 AM
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: the (anti)religious implications of string theory |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | abstract atheist wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: |
∞
∑ n=-1/12
n=1
|
I still don't understand why summing over all the positive integers gives you -1/12. When I first saw this in a string theory book, me and my best friend almost died laughing. But now that I am trying to do theoretical physics, it's not funny any more. But why -1/12? I understand that you can anylitically continue the rieman zeta function, evaluate it at -1, and claim that this is the sum over all positive integers. But
∞
∑ n
n=1
does not converge by the integral test. It seems dangerous to base physical predictions on diverging series. But I suppose I will understand it when I study regularization and renormalization in QFT. Then I ccan just sweep the infinities under the rug. |
I had an interestiong series of letters with Joseph Polchinski on that matter. It was resolved when he pointed out the Virasoro algebra. When you get there, you'll understand what I mean. |
maybe in 4-6 years i will understand what all that shit means
_________________
"In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves" |
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