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If GOD showed you a sign........
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Windg0d
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

So, If I am reading this post right, all things that could one day could have proof means deep down you beleive in it. This renders absoulutly EVERYTHING valid.

Ahem, The flying cookie monster might someday have evidence, therfore, since I would then consider/accept it, I kinda beleive in it.

(Insert mythical creature here) might someday have evidence, therefore, since I would then consider/accept it, I kinda beleive in it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Newman wrote:
Hugga_Bear wrote:
Newman wrote:
Hugga_Bear wrote:
To be fair if the christian God did turn out to exist I would not worship it, if it gave me the choice of course.

Its too sadistic, too twisted to be revered. The christian God is in my eyes like Dorian Gray, many percieve it as the height of culture, the most magnificent of beings, yet it is horribly corrupted at its core.

Maybe one day everyone will realise it?


well if He existed as you say, so would Hell, you would simply rather go to hell?

I would be going to hell anyway surely?
But yes I suppose I would, im too damned blockheaded to choose the right path, id rather be damne for being me then have eternal salvation for being a coward.

That hurts Sad


Smile I seriously doubt it, but ok

If god sends anyone to hell, it proves he's not god anyway. Which means you were right to doubt he was god.

The only thing that could convince me, and that I could truly consider to be a sign, would be if I WAS god for a while. But there can't be 2 gods can there? Or can god allow multiple copies of himself to exist if he wants? But if he did, which one would you worship? Would it make a difference since they were all the same?

So at this point I am not sure that god can even supply a sign that I would find convincing.

You may say you doubt statements like this. But the problem is that I am aware of schizophrenia, hallucination, delusion, optical illusion. I have known schizophrenics, counted one as a friend.

One time he went off his meds and became absolutely and utterly convinced that he was going to inherit a million dollars and as a consequence marry his favorite disc jockey and become governor of Virginia. No amount of argumentation or demonstration could possibly convince him that he was...completely whacko, to put it simply.

So it seems entirely reasonable and even responsible to me that I would require a sign on a par with the certainty and absurdity of a schizophrenic delusion while at the same time somehow knowing for sure that I was not schizophrenic.

I do not see how this is possible, to have schizophrenic experiences and know you are not schizophrenic. On the other hand, nearly all schizophrenics are totally convinced of the reality of their delusions. If I fell into this category, literally everything could seem to me to be a sign from god and yet not be.

All these things considered, I do not see how it is even theoretically possible to receive a sign from god. I simply know too much about how easily and in how many ways our sense perceptions can go wrong.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Man, you guys really do look at the negative sides to everything. As a christian (who believes in many things), you guys really don't accept anything but your own beliefs. It's weird that this whole forum is based on freethinking, yet you guys won't allow it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Troll Razz
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"What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job." --Carl Sagan

"In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." --Douglas Adams

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote



Quote:
Necormancer has a supernatural ability to bring long-dead forum discussion threads back to life. After having been flogged to death the thread may have been deceased for many years, and bringing it back may have scant relevance to the current topic, yet Necromancer will unexpectedly exhume the thread’s rotting corpse, and strike horror in the forum as its grotesque form lurches into the discussion. The monster, instantly recognized by all who knew it in life, seems at first to breathe and have a pulse, but, alas, it is beyond Necromancer’s skill to fully restore the thread’s original vitality. The hideous apparition may frighten away some of the weaker Warriors or Warriors badly wounded in former battles, but the thread is only a shadow of its former self and very quickly expires.

Unlike Archivist, Necromancer compulsively saves every forum message in carefully preserved archives for future use in battle, while Necromancer collects departed threads merely for the thrill of resurrecting them. Some say he performs this unnatural act out of malice, others say he can’t help himself, but no one really knows.


remind you of a new user lol
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

sportspadawan13 wrote:
Man, you guys really do look at the negative sides to everything.


And what, exactly, is wrong with that?

sportspadawan13 wrote:
As a christian (who believes in many things),


Like your belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who demands that people telepathically accept him as their master so he can drive an evil force out of us that was put into us because a dust-man and a rib-woman were convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree makes perfect sense. Rolling Eyes


sportspadawan13 wrote:
you guys really don't accept anything but your own beliefs.


A bold-faced lie and a completely and utterly ignorant statement on your part.

sportspadawan13 wrote:
It's weird that this whole forum is based on freethinking, yet you guys won't allow it.


Another ignorant and utterly baseless statement. Proving the things you say may help you're stance, you know.
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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson

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YummyLies
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Hm...I think I've heard this before...

But it's still funny. Very Happy

Raskolnikov wrote:
sportspadawan13 wrote:
As a christian (who believes in many things),


Like your belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who demands that people telepathically accept him as their master so he can drive an evil force out of us that was put into us because a dust-man and a rib-woman were convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree makes perfect sense. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

YummyLies wrote:
Hm...I think I've heard this before...

But it's still funny. Very Happy

Raskolnikov wrote:
sportspadawan13 wrote:
As a christian (who believes in many things),


Like your belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who demands that people telepathically accept him as their master so he can drive an evil force out of us that was put into us because a dust-man and a rib-woman were convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree makes perfect sense. Rolling Eyes


I actually have that in shirt form lol:


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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson

"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
-Dr. Emmett Brown
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:21 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I think it would take a bit more than "a sign" to convince me of the existence of god. He would pretty much have to come down here, actually appear as a person and not some weird smoke in the corner, and then say to me "I exist". At which point I would reply, "good for you, now do you mind if I get back to my book?". So basically even if I was convinced of his existence I'm not about to become a bible thumper.
I would explain to him that if he wanted me to blindly obey his commands then it was pretty stupid to give me free will, and with the free will that he gave me I'm choosing to not blindly obey such commands.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: tadams86: Here's What Your Posts Look Like to Sane People... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

"LOL Redwings, but serioulsy, the Invisible Flying Elephant loves us all, he loves us even before we become Elephantians, that's why Dumbo died for us. Dumbo suffered more then any of us so, who are we to complain about the world sufferings. Is the Invisible Flying Elephant doing anything about death and suffering?
People who accuse the Invisible Flying Elephant of sitting back and doing nothing are missing a vital truth. In reality, the Invisible Flying Elephant has already done everything you would want a loving Invisible Flying Elephant to do—and infinitely more!

The Son of the Invisible Flying Elephant became a circus performing flying elephant clown and endured both suffering and a horrible death on man’s behalf.
Adam’s sin left mankind in a terrible predicament. Even though our bodies die, we are made in the image of the Invisible Flying Elephant, and thus we have trumpeting sounds that are immortal. Our conscious being is going to live forever. Unless the Invisible Flying Elephant or Jiminy Cricket intervened, Adam’s sin meant that we would spend an eternity of suffering and separation from Him.

The only way for us to restore our life with the Invisible Flying Elephant is if we are able to come to Him with the penalty paid for our sin. In Walt Disney's "Dumbo," we learn to understand how this can be done. It says, ‘And thousands of people watched Dumbo fly.’ Clowns represent fun. Walt Disney's "Dumbo" explains that ‘His mother was taken away and locked up for defending him against taunting children’ (Page 23). The Invisible Flying Elephant makes it clear that, because we are creatures of flesh and blood, the only way to pay the penalty for our sin is if we offer peanuts to Dumbo to take away our sin.

Under the circus Big Top, the Invisible Flying Elephant killed a clown and clothed Adam and Eve in polka-dot clothing, ruffled collars, huge red shoes, rede bulbous noses and frizzy afro-style rainbow hair as a picture of a covering for our sin. A peanut sacrifice was needed because of our sin. The laughing crows sacrificed their magical feathers over and over again; however, because Adam’s blood does not flow in feathers, clown suits, though they could temporarily cover our sin, could never take it away. The Hysko moon-worshippers word translated ‘atonement’ is kaphar, which means ‘Jiminy Cricket.’

The solution was the Invisible Flying Elephant's plan to send Dumbo, the Second Person of the triune Godhead, the Cute Elephant, to become a clown—a perfect clown—to be a sacrifice for sin. In the person of Dumbo, our Creator Invisible Flying Elephant stepped into history (John 1:1–14) to become a physical descendant of Adam, called ‘the last Adam’ (Disney's "Dumbo," Page 24), born of a virgin elephant who was beaten and locked up for defending her young son from naughty children. Because Jiminy Cricket overshadowed Dumbo's mother (Disney's "Dumbo" Page 12), He was a perfect clown, one without sin—despite having been tempted in every way that we are (Disney's "Dumbo," Page 34)—who thus could shed His peanuts under the Big Top for our sin.

Because mankind’s first representative head—Adam—was responsible for bringing sin and death into the world, the human race can now have a new representative—the ‘last Adam’—who paid the penalty for sin. No sinner could pay for the sins of others, but this last Adam—Dumbo—was a perfect clown. The Invisible Flying Elephant in elephant flesh was able to bear the sins and sorrows of the world."

Do you now see just how insane your prattle is?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:29 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:
If god sends anyone to hell, it proves he's not god anyway. Which means you were right to doubt he was god.


I'm not entirely sure that's right. If god sends you to hell it does not prove he's not god, it merely proves he's an arsehole.
--that also happens to be the strong impression I got as a child reading the Torah. YHWH was depicted as petty, vindictive, cruel and sadistic. Sending people to hell on a whim are exactly the kind of thing he would do. Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:34 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Anonymous1138 wrote:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus

I guess it never dawned on Epicurus that you logically cannot have true good while all evil is prevented.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

chookrooter wrote:
Quote:
If god sends anyone to hell, it proves he's not god anyway. Which means you were right to doubt he was god.


I'm not entirely sure that's right. If god sends you to hell it does not prove he's not god, it merely proves he's an arsehole.
--that also happens to be the strong impression I got as a child reading the Torah. YHWH was depicted as petty, vindictive, cruel and sadistic. Sending people to hell on a whim are exactly the kind of thing he would do. Cool


The God of the Hebrew Scriptures is your typical Bronze Age tyrant, but the concept of hell is a New Testament thing. That is why I have always considered the Christian concept of god to be much much worse than the Jewish. It is not the Jews knocking on my door to tell me I am going to hell.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

antonivs wrote:
The God of the Hebrew Scriptures is your typical Bronze Age tyrant, but the concept of hell is a New Testament thing. That is why I have always considered the Christian concept of god to be much much worse than the Jewish. It is not the Jews knocking on my door to tell me I am going to hell.


Modern christian hell concept was invented by the pagan Egyptians.



"Before coming into the courtroom the dead person had to pass a labyrinth of gates and doors and answer questions correctly to pass through. The lion-god Aker let him through the last gate and he was facing the fourteen members of the jury in the Tribunal Hall. There he was allowed to speak about his behavior on Earth. (Shown in the upper left in the picture above). Then god Anubis took him into the courtroom presenting him the scale where his heart would be put in balance with the feather of the goddess and patroness of truth and harmony. The procedure was recorded by Thoth - the god of writing and wisdom. Sometimes Thoth's animal (a baboon) was sitting on top of the scale ready to adjust the result using a sliding weight.

If the heart of the deceased wasn't too heavy with sins from his life on Earth, he went through and could continue his voyage to the afterlife and was granted a plot of land in the "Field of the Reeds". This was the paradise for the ancient Egyptians - to grow crops for eternity in a land that was the very image of the Nile Valley they just had left. If he failed the test on the other hand - his heart was immediately devoured by the beast Ammut sitting under the scale. In that case the dead faced the most horrible future imaginable for the Egyptians - he was denied an eternal life in the land in the West and his soul would be restless forever."

Source: http://www.nemo.nu/ibisportal/0egyptintro/1egypt/index.htm

The Egyptians knew much more about their hell and judgment procedures than Christians know about theirs. The fundamentals of the Egyptian hereafter are identical to that of Christendom (modern christianity). Only the fanciful gods attending to the judgment of the dead differ from that of Christendom, however, the main concepts of what man is and what happens to him at death are virtually the same.

1. We see that the DEAD are STILL LIVING (Anything is possible in fables).
2. The dead Egyptians had IMMORTAL SOULS.
3. At the time of death, JUDGMENT took place immediately.
4. Good people were ushered into a place of HAPPINESS at death.
5. Bad people were: (a) Sentenced to ROAM AIMLESSLY, (b) were completely ANNIHILATED by being eaten by Ammut, or (c) they could be TORTURED as in fire.

It is believed that at any given time only select few understand the spiritual truth hidden within the scripture and it differs tremendously from the modern christian interpretation of hell, judgement, resurrection among many other concepts. The fundamental idea within the bible is this: At any given time many are called and only few are chosen but eventually ALL of humanity is going to be saved.

Peace, Wondersoflife.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:18 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Wondersoflife wrote:
antonivs wrote:
The God of the Hebrew Scriptures is your typical Bronze Age tyrant, but the concept of hell is a New Testament thing. That is why I have always considered the Christian concept of god to be much much worse than the Jewish. It is not the Jews knocking on my door to tell me I am going to hell.


Modern christian hell concept was invented by the pagan Egyptians.



"Before coming into the courtroom the dead person had to pass a labyrinth of gates and doors and answer questions correctly to pass through. The lion-god Aker let him through the last gate and he was facing the fourteen members of the jury in the Tribunal Hall. There he was allowed to speak about his behavior on Earth. (Shown in the upper left in the picture above). Then god Anubis took him into the courtroom presenting him the scale where his heart would be put in balance with the feather of the goddess and patroness of truth and harmony. The procedure was recorded by Thoth - the god of writing and wisdom. Sometimes Thoth's animal (a baboon) was sitting on top of the scale ready to adjust the result using a sliding weight.

If the heart of the deceased wasn't too heavy with sins from his life on Earth, he went through and could continue his voyage to the afterlife and was granted a plot of land in the "Field of the Reeds". This was the paradise for the ancient Egyptians - to grow crops for eternity in a land that was the very image of the Nile Valley they just had left. If he failed the test on the other hand - his heart was immediately devoured by the beast Ammut sitting under the scale. In that case the dead faced the most horrible future imaginable for the Egyptians - he was denied an eternal life in the land in the West and his soul would be restless forever."

Source: http://www.nemo.nu/ibisportal/0egyptintro/1egypt/index.htm

The Egyptians knew much more about their hell and judgment procedures than Christians know about theirs. The fundamentals of the Egyptian hereafter are identical to that of Christendom (modern christianity). Only the fanciful gods attending to the judgment of the dead differ from that of Christendom, however, the main concepts of what man is and what happens to him at death are virtually the same.

1. We see that the DEAD are STILL LIVING (Anything is possible in fables).
2. The dead Egyptians had IMMORTAL SOULS.
3. At the time of death, JUDGMENT took place immediately.
4. Good people were ushered into a place of HAPPINESS at death.
5. Bad people were: (a) Sentenced to ROAM AIMLESSLY, (b) were completely ANNIHILATED by being eaten by Ammut, or (c) they could be TORTURED as in fire.

It is believed that at any given time only select few understand the spiritual truth hidden within the scripture and it differs tremendously from the modern christian interpretation of hell, judgement, resurrection among many other concepts. The fundamental idea within the bible is this: At any given time many are called and only few are chosen but eventually ALL of humanity is going to be saved.

Peace, Wondersoflife.


Actually I heard it was a borrowing from the Zoroastrians. But whether they borrowed it from the Egyptians or the Zoroastrians doesn't really matter. My point was that it isn't an Old Testament thing.
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