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WashMDJD
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 Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| GodWarrior98 wrote: | | WashMDJD wrote: |
Not to throw a damper on your anti-intellectual post, but most all of our great mathematicians through history were philosophers of mathematics. Hell, Newton's calculus and physics were explicitly based upon his philosophies. He was what was then called a 'natural philosopher' (a philosopher of nature), and his first musings on physics are captured in his philosophical tracts on the nature of the universe. I have quite a number of good passages in front of me (I don't find them all that interesting, since I generally think of mathematics as being almost as boring as a subject can get, but that's me.). Leibniz and Kant drew their mathematical discussions from their philosophy, as did older names like Aristotle and Plato.
If these discoveries were made by seeking to understand the nature of underlying assumptions that we'd always taken for granted, finding one of them to be false (or badly understood) and correcting it - and then seeing where that correction led to in the discipline built upon it, then why should we condemn people who today do exactly the same things? Do you think that we've finally reached the pinnacle of knowledge and that absolutely no new paradigm shifts are ever going to happen again? That seems a bit presumptuous. |
How does questioning whether parallel lines are parallel have potential to produce something?
That kind of philosophy is nothing like what Newton performed. |
"Is not the sensory of animals that place to which the sensitive substance is present, and into which the sensible species of things are carried through the nerves and brain, that there they may be perceived by their immediate presence to that substance? And these things being rightly dispatched, does it not appear from the phenomena that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent, omnipresent, who in infinite space, as it were in His Sensory, sees the things themselves intimately, and thoroughly perceives them, and comprehends them wholly by their immediate presence to Himself: of which things the images only carried through the organs of sense into our little sensoriums, are there seen and beheld by that which in us perceives and thinks. And though every true step made in this philosophy brings us not immediately to the knowledge of the first cause, yet it brings us nearer to it, and on that account is to be highly valued..." -Newton, on why mathematics is a divine/sublime discipline.
"In addition, as Descartes... seems to have demonstrated that body does not differ at all from extension, abstracting hardness, colour, weight, cold, heat and the remaining qualities which body can lack, so that at least there remians only its extension in length, width and depth which hence alone appertain to its essence; and as this has been taken as proved to many, and is in my view the only reason for having confidence in this opinion; lest any doubt should remain about the nature of motion, I shall reply to this argument by explaining what extention and body are, and how they differ from each other. For since the distinction of substances into thinking and extended entities, or rather into thoughts and extensions, is the principal foundation of Cartesian philosophy, which he contends to be even better known: I consider it most important to overthrow [that philosophy] as regards extension, in order to lay truer philosophical foundations of the mechanical sciences." -Newton, on defeating Descartes to establish his own mathematical system.
Newton seemed to think philosophy went hand-in-hand with mathematics.
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redzorg
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| nidias91 wrote: | There are many things that don't help us survive, or are not necessary.
Clothes, mass entertainment, television, etc.
Anything can be used to help us survive. Philosophy, throughout history, has allowed people to develop their faith or lack of. This has allowed us to move away from things like the Crusades and the Inquisition. |
Useless to humanity?
Philosophy in never useless to oneself if
that person knows how to philosophize.
Philosophy is a way of being.
Being aware and feeling what is happening around you
as opposed to being a robot that only advances and
evolves through advancements.
Philosophy is the love of knowledge, not just the
barer of it. |
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Rortykiller
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Philosophy is more like a book with new chapters being added to it all the time. Each chapter is another way to talk about the world, each one based on the chapters before it, and each one to be followed by new chapters.
Is it the sole bearer of truth? Or Justice? No. It isn't. Its a running dialog between men for centuries, all of whom were thrown into existence and forced to write their own guide books. Philosophies are those guides.
To say philosophy is useless is misleading. To say it is more than literature? I don't think you can.
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"rights" are the modern recontextualizing of "holy"; a romanticized state of being beyond reproach. |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Philosophy is the Great Conversation... not the Great Answer.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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xena
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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'interesting' no?
The jackdaws are swarming like bees, getting warm for the night for a place in the trees.
Yes nonsense I drivel.
Isn't that philosophy?
Of course Aristotle was my best friend when I was 3.
The books holing up my brothers bed, I took-hehe-and I read the old tattered and torn and loved his thoughts-actually. |
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Chaoslord2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Tornado_Creator wrote: | | The study of Axioms is mindless rubbish. |
You struck me as an individual who has never cracked a logic textbook. But please, by all means, continue to spout nonsense. Don't let your ignorance of logic stop you from pretending to know what the fuck your talking about.
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An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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Chaoslord2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Tornado_Creator wrote: | | Maths and science are not based in philosophy, maths is based in pure logic, we simply use a base-10 system in which we have assigned each unit names before attempting to calculate. There is no philosophy in this and saying so is a fucking insult to maths and science. |
It is next to impossible to do mathematical logic without have a deep affinity to philosophy of mathematics and philosophy of logic. The very assumptions and the various axioms are defended on philosophical grounds...they are grounded in philosophical principles. The same is true of science. All of science rests on the philosophical principle of the uniformity of nature...a philosophical principle.
I suggest you actually study these matters, rather than pretending to know what you're talking about.
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An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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Shiranu
Disciple of Slaanesh
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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GodWarrior98 is useless junk.
Prove me wrong.
At least you dont see my going around posting threads about it, though...
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"I never really wanted you to see, The screwed up side of me that I keep...Locked inside of me so deep...It always seems to get to me. I never really wanted you to go, So many things you should have known. I guess for me there's just no hope, I never meant to be so cold..."
"Life feels quite like Hell should, but this Hells so cold...Pull another knife out, stick it with rest of them... when my back is full, turn me around to face it." Trivium |
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GodWarrior98
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | GodWarrior98 is useless junk.
Prove me wrong.
At least you dont see my going around posting threads about it, though... |
I once rescued a kitten from a tree.
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In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite. -Paul Dirac
I am not a theist. The name is a lie. |
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Chaoslord2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | GodWarrior98 is useless junk.
Prove me wrong.
At least you dont see my going around posting threads about it, though... |
With a name like GodWarrior, I suppose we can't expect much...
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An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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Shiranu
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Relative as to how useful said rescuing is. What if the cat went on to kill a mouse which would have caused a lady to jump in fear, and be a second late to where she was supose to have a car crash.
Or what if they had to grab the cat to take them to a neighbors while they were going to Florida, and the cat hid in the bathroom to hide,they go to get him, and in doing so realized that the heater in their bathroom was still on, (leave them on too long, and houses tend to cut on fire)?
Or what if they WANTED that cat to be stuck in a tree?
*tisk* *tisk*
_________________
"I never really wanted you to see, The screwed up side of me that I keep...Locked inside of me so deep...It always seems to get to me. I never really wanted you to go, So many things you should have known. I guess for me there's just no hope, I never meant to be so cold..."
"Life feels quite like Hell should, but this Hells so cold...Pull another knife out, stick it with rest of them... when my back is full, turn me around to face it." Trivium |
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GodWarrior98
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | Relative as to how useful said rescuing is. What if the cat went on to kill a mouse which would have caused a lady to jump in fear, and be a second late to where she was supose to have a car crash.
Or what if they had to grab the cat to take them to a neighbors while they were going to Florida, and the cat hid in the bathroom to hide,they go to get him, and in doing so realized that the heater in their bathroom was still on, (leave them on too long, and houses tend to cut on fire)?
Or what if they WANTED that cat to be stuck in a tree?
*tisk* *tisk* |
Actually, the cat went on to win the Nobel Prize in Physics.
_________________
In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite. -Paul Dirac
I am not a theist. The name is a lie. |
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Shiranu
Disciple of Slaanesh
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 3735
Local time: 10:44 PM
Location: An Octopusus' Garden with you... (San Antonio)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| GodWarrior98 wrote: | | Shiranu wrote: | Relative as to how useful said rescuing is. What if the cat went on to kill a mouse which would have caused a lady to jump in fear, and be a second late to where she was supose to have a car crash.
Or what if they had to grab the cat to take them to a neighbors while they were going to Florida, and the cat hid in the bathroom to hide,they go to get him, and in doing so realized that the heater in their bathroom was still on, (leave them on too long, and houses tend to cut on fire)?
Or what if they WANTED that cat to be stuck in a tree?
*tisk* *tisk* |
Actually, the cat went on to win the Nobel Prize in Physics. |
Oh. Shit, okay then, my bad, your useful.
Carry on!
_________________
"I never really wanted you to see, The screwed up side of me that I keep...Locked inside of me so deep...It always seems to get to me. I never really wanted you to go, So many things you should have known. I guess for me there's just no hope, I never meant to be so cold..."
"Life feels quite like Hell should, but this Hells so cold...Pull another knife out, stick it with rest of them... when my back is full, turn me around to face it." Trivium |
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Rortykiller
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Philosophy might not be useless, but it is dead.
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"rights" are the modern recontextualizing of "holy"; a romanticized state of being beyond reproach. |
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joshuas3521
Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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"What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job." --Carl Sagan
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