Again with Darwin-Hitler thing... sigh...

Noway · Visitor Joined: 18 Jul 2008 Posts: 7 Local time: 8:27 PM

Hello everyone, as this is my first post I'll briefly introduce myself. I grew up in a very religious family and was a fanatical believer myself until I joined the US navy several years ago and subsequently became "corrupted". After gaining the courage to ask the questions I previously took on faith, I not only became a skeptic, I also became the black sheep of the family. I therefore have the great pleasure of being presented with arguments like the following. While I did enjoy tearing it up, I'd like to get some other opinions. Thanks.

Is there a direct line between Darwin and Hitler? Yes, but does that mean that Darwin is responsible for what Hitler did? No. Yet there is an intellectual connection Dr. Richard Evans, Professor of Modern History at the University of Cambridge states, "Darwinist thinkers in Germany had developed an amoral attitude to human society by the time of the First World War, in which the supposed good of the race was applied as the sole criterion of public policy and 'racial hygiene'. Policies such as infanticide, assisted suicide, marriage prohibitions and much else were being proposed for those considered racially or eugenically inferior by a variety of Darwinist writers and scientists, providing Hitler and the Nazis with a scientific justification for the policies they pursued once they came to power."

The unvarnished truth is that Darwin removed the spirituality of mankind. He places man within nature. Once you do that you can regard man as one would regard animals or the plant kingdom. There is nothing by way of essence to regard man as special. There is nothing by way of value that is connected to a transcendent moral understanding that provides humans with an innate sense of worth, as one finds in the Christian understanding of man being made in God's image. It is true that you won't find many atheists today arguing for eugenics or the euthanasia of the mentally disabled. But why not?

Scientifically it would be very difficult to argue against. Could it be that something within us cries out against the compulsory sterilization and euthanasia of mentally and physically handicapped people? Could it be that this "something" is perhaps unscientific? Could it be an inborn sense of man's spiritual worth-that he is not just an animal that happened to make it to the top of the food chain through natural selection and survival of the fittest? After all natural selection and survival of the fittest are the only moral imperatives that can be derived from Darwinian evolution. It is true that many atheists are reticent in wanting to take that approach to morality, but why? It would be perfectly consistent. It may be considered culturally taboo and amoral, but after all the scientific method is amoral. So are morals simply the result of biogenesis, chemical reactions and cultural conditioning that has over time brought about feelings of discomfort in regards to rape, child abuse and slavery? Well known atheist ethicists like Peter Singer reduces morality down to doing what brings about the best consequences. Fine. But what if what is doing what is best for me results in oppressing my fellow neighbor? If he is weak enough to let me take advantage of him for the furtherance of my own survival and bloodline than how is this evil in a Darwinian world? I've never heard an atheist give a cogent answer to this that doesn't result in cognitive dissonance to his own existence.

Sea of red · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject:

Funny just today I had someone at another forum talk about how Hitler was not a Christian.I showed them links and articles,but they still continue to accept this dumb ass rumor.

Maybe I'll start denying Stalin was an atheist.

Buckster · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject:

First, what we do in terms of protection of other humans is very much in line with what other animals do in protection of those in their own species. Because we are radically smarter and able to communicate more effectively, we are more aware of it, even to the point of being able to ask ourselves "why?

The "why" is answered for us as it is for the rest of the animal kingdom: Because it is necessary for the survival of the species. A species that does not protect itself, it's young, and it's potential mates (neighbors) is doomed to die off. Even individuals today who are born without those traits are termed psychopaths, and as soon as they exhibit these traits we lock them up and/or execute them - again, to protect the others in our species.

Now, the next thing to think about is: Did this merciless killing and raping and maiming and oppressing of neighbors start when Darwin came up with his radical idea that we're all just animals? Of course not. And that should be the end of the idea that Darwin is to blame for Hitler and the holocaust.

The posted thought experiment, culminating with, "I've never heard an atheist give a cogent answer to this that doesn't result in cognitive dissonance to his own existence" is just more Christian apologetic double-speak. They like to pick and choose bits and pieces of what some atheist or scientist has said, and then leap on the lone nugget as though it exists in a vacuum. Like their own god stories, they fail to take into consideration ALL the facts that will either support or destroy the hypothesis.

As has been said, "simple minds require simple answers." It doesn't get any simpler than, "Goddidit."
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jdopus · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:11 am Post subject:

Just a thought, It's my own personal belief that Hitler probably was an atheist who used christianity to turn people to his own side. But. How can all the blame lie with Hitler? Surely some lies with the fact that the apparently good force of Christianity was so easily warped to his own purposes.
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howgoyoufar · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:44 am Post subject:

Alright, i'm not sure exactly what the question is because i'm way too lazy to read that whole big post haha.
But if the assertion being made is that Hitler=Atheist and Hitler=Evil, then Atheism=Evil, it's pretty easy to dispute. First of all, there's proof Hitlery was a Christian, or at least portrayed himself that way.
Secondly, just because Hitler was an atheist does not mean atheism is like Hitler. I don't know exactly what fallacy this is, but it's like saying because Hitler had a mustache, all mustached men are like Hitler.
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xena · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:53 am Post subject:

The unvarnished truth is that Darwin removed the spirituality of mankind. He places man within nature. Once you do that you can regard man as one would regard animals or the plant kingdom. There is nothing by way of essence to regard man as special. There is nothing by way of value that is connected to a transcendent moral understanding that provides humans with an innate sense of worth, as one finds in the Christian understanding of man being made in God's image. It is true that you won't find many atheists today arguing for eugenics or the euthanasia of the mentally disabled. But why not?

when did you become a professor? of life? Of knowledge of life?

Humans have this thing called a brain-some use it wisely (not me-so don't sweep me off the ground)-choice
choose
life
I would kill me now-right now. EDIT (SO THAT I COULD GIVE SOMEONE ELSE A DESERVED LIFE)end edit
I'm atheist and I'm ill.

Fuck you.

kmisho · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:15 am Post subject:

jdopus · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject:

kmisho · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:43 am Post subject:

SvZurich · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:08 am Post subject:

kmisho, check your PM box. Then check the date on the message. Bad kmisho, bad.
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kmisho · Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject:

It was an onlder message. So what?
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SvZurich · Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject:

Well, is your answer yes or no? It's an invitation.
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