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Moksha Vs. Nirvana
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xena
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Aupmanyav wrote:
xena wrote:
I LOVE FILMS.
I too loved films, but that was ages ago. Now I get bored. Smile


Are we happy?
I've not studied any form of whatever-I understand and have read (is that study) and have watched much stuff. Buddha was only a guy you know and all you Buddhists who dishonour what he said make me puke.
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xena
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:48 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

someone interject.
passify
Shut me up as in NOW

though all good really-yeah
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Aupmanyav
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:54 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

xena wrote:
Buddha was only a guy you know and all you Buddhists who dishonour what he said make me puke.
I am an atheist hindu and I respect Buddha no less than any Buddhist. Buddha said 'do not believe even if I say this'. I followed the advice and found some other truth. Buddha would have been very pleased with me.
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Aupmanyav
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

xena wrote:
someone interject. Passify .. Shut me up as in NOW .. though all good really-yeah
Oh, the form surprises you. Is that what all you see? For the believers, this is Kali as it appears to the enemies of her followers.
This is how she appears to her followers.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2902166850100145658xRqlAh
Also http://www.info-sikh.com/durga4.jpg

Iconography of Kali:

"The Shiv tattva (Divine Consciousness as Shiva) is inactive, while the Shakti tattva (Divine Energy as Kali) is active. Shiva, or Mahadeva represents Brahman, the Absolute pure consciousness which is beyond all names, forms and activities. Kali, on the other hand, represents the potential (and manifested) energy responsible for all names, forms and activities. She is his Shakti, or creative power, and is seen as the substance behind the entire content of all consciousness. She can never exist apart from Shiva or act independently of him, i.e., Shakti, all the matter/energy of the universe, is not distinct from Shiva, or Brahman, but is rather the dynamic power of Brahman."

"Once Kali had destroyed all the demons in battle, she began a terrific dance out of the sheer joy of victory. All the worlds or lokas began to tremble and sway under the impact of her dance. So, at the request of all the Gods, Shiva himself asked her to desist from this behavior. However, she was too intoxicated to listen. Hence, Shiva lay like a corpse among the slain demons in order to absorb the shock of the dance into himself. When Kali eventually stepped upon her husband she realized her mistake and bit her tongue in shame." (Wikipedia - Kali)
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"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)
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Moloth
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

kinda like Yahweh... in the OT, he was flame-spitting, revenging, smiting, genocidal maniac... in the NT, he's a bit more cuddly (and distant and impersonal).
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total
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xena
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Aupmanyav wrote:
xena wrote:
someone interject. Passify .. Shut me up as in NOW .. though all good really-yeah
Oh, the form surprises you. Is that what all you see? For the believers, this is Kali as it appears to the enemies of her followers.
This is how she appears to her followers.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2902166850100145658xRqlAh
Also http://www.info-sikh.com/durga4.jpg

Iconography of Kali:

"The Shiv tattva (Divine Consciousness as Shiva) is inactive, while the Shakti tattva (Divine Energy as Kali) is active. Shiva, or Mahadeva represents Brahman, the Absolute pure consciousness which is beyond all names, forms and activities. Kali, on the other hand, represents the potential (and manifested) energy responsible for all names, forms and activities. She is his Shakti, or creative power, and is seen as the substance behind the entire content of all consciousness. She can never exist apart from Shiva or act independently of him, i.e., Shakti, all the matter/energy of the universe, is not distinct from Shiva, or Brahman, but is rather the dynamic power of Brahman."

"Once Kali had destroyed all the demons in battle, she began a terrific dance out of the sheer joy of victory. All the worlds or lokas began to tremble and sway under the impact of her dance. So, at the request of all the Gods, Shiva himself asked her to desist from this behavior. However, she was too intoxicated to listen. Hence, Shiva lay like a corpse among the slain demons in order to absorb the shock of the dance into himself. When Kali eventually stepped upon her husband she realized her mistake and bit her tongue in shame." (Wikipedia - Kali)


It's a picture...(to me)
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Aupmanyav
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

xena wrote:
It's a picture...(to me)
All these are pictures to me too, albeit, the belief of many hindus. Even those who worship these deities will say that it is Brahman, the substrate, the energy, which constitutes everything in the universe. Worshiping a deity in hinduism does not mean the denial of the the universal substrate. Hinduism is not an Abrahamic religion. That is why they say 'Kana kana mein Bhagawan' (The substrate even in the smallest particle of sand).
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xena
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:44 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Oh sand grains
Lovely
They produce pearls.


Which dissolve unexpectedly after years of growth.


by what?

What acid is your toxin?
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Aupmanyav
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

xena wrote:
What acid is your toxin?
Confused
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"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)
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Wickedtruth
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Aupmanyav wrote:
xena wrote:
It's a picture...(to me)
All these are pictures to me too, albeit, the belief of many hindus. Even those who worship these deities will say that it is Brahman, the substrate, the energy, which constitutes everything in the universe. Worshiping a deity in hinduism does not mean the denial of the the universal substrate. Hinduism is not an Abrahamic religion. That is why they say 'Kana kana mein Bhagawan' (The substrate even in the smallest particle of sand).



Very well spoken Aupmanyav.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Although, the Bhagavad Gita does hint that the non-dual path is a little harder.


12:5 Those who make the Unmanifested their primary goal make the path more difficult for themselves. Arduous for embodied beings is that path.

12:3, 4 Those, however, who aspire to the indestructible, the indescribable, the unmanifested, the All-Pervading, the incomprehensible, the immutable above all vibration, who have subjugated the senses, are even-minded, and devote themselves to the well-being of all--verily, they too, attain me.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Anyway, back on topic..lets see if I can find something on Buddhism Nirvana vs Moksha...

"Buddha came at a time when the people had come to depend on Vedic rituals to the point where they expected divine favors by merely repeating rituals and word formulae, without any self effort devoted to personal purificiation for self-transformation. Their belief might be might be classified as mere superstition. Buddha did not speak against the vedas as such: He spoke against people's excessive dependence on their outward practices."

"Because Buddha refrained from speaking of God, but rather tried to impress on people's minds their need to make personal effort to purify themselves, his followers soon fell into the fallacy of atheism. True, God doesn't really have a human form: he is pure, absolute bliss--infinite-eternal, and ever-concious, as Shankaracharya later claimed. Shankara wanted to persuade people that the forms in which they had clothed God were purely for their own devotional upliftment: They were not literal realities."


"The nirvana of official Buddhism, according to an official document published some years ago in Thailand, is that the bliss of which Shankara spoke lasts only a moment, and is replaced immediatley by eternal nothingness. Could anyone sincerely strive to attain nothingness? Surely, when the moment arrives for the choice to be faced--whether to embrace a complete void, or to await a later "oppertunity"---the ego will pull back in fear, electing to rather be a"bodhisattwa" indefinitely, out of "pure compassion" for mankind. Compassion, maybe, but it seems natural to prefer this compassion to becoming nothing!"



Phew..that is it a lot of typing...I'm going to stop now.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Wickedtruth wrote:
Could anyone sincerely strive to attain nothingness? Surely, when the moment arrives for the choice to be faced--whether to embrace a complete void, or to await a later "oppertunity"---the ego will pull back in fear, electing to rather be a"bodhisattwa" indefinitely, out of "pure compassion" for mankind. Compassion, maybe, but it seems natural to prefer this compassion to becoming nothing!" Phew .. that is it a lot of typing .. I'm going to stop now.
Nice effort, and good quotes from Geeta. Buddha was silent about the void, Sankara did not accept that it was a void. It is bereft of self, atta. Yes, the choice is frightening, like jumping over a crevice without rope. No afterlife, no divine assistance. But once taken, it solves all problems.
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"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)
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