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JBCuzISaidSo Jaded Humanist

Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 2143 Local time: 2:14 PM Location: South Florida

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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Momma Drama (rant/WWJD) |
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So what do you say to a person that after fighting with you forever about religion, hanging up on you because now that you're out you ain't going back into the atheist closet for anything, and generally acting like they failed because you do not believe no matter what they say to you about it, now tosses it of as (get this):
The measles shot I got as a kid, and got so sick from after receiving it, may be the cause of my "different" learning abilities, and may even be a form of very non-invasive autism that has caused me to "learn different".....and I know this means not believe in some supernatural gumball machine that lives past the clouds, considering the source.
My "different" learning abilities:
She thought I was retarded and took me to an Institution at the age of 3 that determines mental retardation because I wasn't talking yet. They laughed at her (her words) and told her I'd talk when I wanted to. This still applies at 34 lol. I really hate it when people call it 'shy'....digressing......
She couldn't teach me to read like she did my sister, and was actually surprised when my kindergarten teacher informed her a few weeks into school that I was tested and was reading at a 4th grade level. (I still learn everything on a different curve than most folks, but just back away and let me do it all by myself, huh? Otherwise it won't happen?)
I scored high on every test given, and aced grade/high school. Top 95th percentile in the country on the SATs. Got sick of school and stopped after I graduated HS, at 17.
How would you react if your Mother thought you might be mildly retarded because you hold zero belief, and thinks that she even pinpointed the situation to a VACCINATION? What do you even SAY to this?
I'm lost. I'm sick of getting mad at her, too. I don't know what to say to the woman any longer.
.....Why don't I drink more?.....
Thanks for reading. Ignore me if you'd like.  _________________
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monkeybyte Forum Master


Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Posts: 3575 Local time: 5:14 AM Location: At E's place for tea.
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ask her to be consistant.
Why is she grasping for 'rational' explanations for your lack of faith?
Where is it in the bibble that states that nonbelievers are predetermined and are hellbound regardless of earthly intervention?
Who is she to question God? _________________ "Setting people on fire is wrong." -Todd "Squee" Casil. |
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ShaSha Forum Master

Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 5541 Local time: 1:14 PM Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Momma Drama (rant/WWJD) |
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| JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | So what do you say to a person that after fighting with you forever about religion, hanging up on you because now that you're out you ain't going back into the atheist closet for anything, and generally acting like they failed because you do not believe no matter what they say to you about it, now tosses it of as (get this):
The measles shot I got as a kid, and got so sick from after receiving it, may be the cause of my "different" learning abilities, and may even be a form of very non-invasive autism that has caused me to "learn different".....and I know this means not believe in some supernatural gumball machine that lives past the clouds, considering the source.
My "different" learning abilities:
She thought I was retarded and took me to an Institution at the age of 3 that determines mental retardation because I wasn't talking yet. They laughed at her (her words) and told her I'd talk when I wanted to. This still applies at 34 lol. I really hate it when people call it 'shy'....digressing......
She couldn't teach me to read like she did my sister, and was actually surprised when my kindergarten teacher informed her a few weeks into school that I was tested and was reading at a 4th grade level. (I still learn everything on a different curve than most folks, but just back away and let me do it all by myself, huh? Otherwise it won't happen?)
I scored high on every test given, and aced grade/high school. Top 95th percentile in the country on the SATs. Got sick of school and stopped after I graduated HS, at 17.
How would you react if your Mother thought you might be mildly retarded because you hold zero belief, and thinks that she even pinpointed the situation to a VACCINATION? What do you even SAY to this?
I'm lost. I'm sick of getting mad at her, too. I don't know what to say to the woman any longer.
.....Why don't I drink more?.....
Thanks for reading. Ignore me if you'd like.  |
Get away from the religious drama and focus on why you love her and she you. Let her know that she didn't fail you and count the ways you love her
There are some things that I don't discuss with my adult children because we disagree and anger can sometimes be the result. So we back off if we forgot and ventured there or we have a good argument and come to the same resolution that we would have had we not argued but something else was really the problem
If she thinks measles caused you a problem tell her that your successes in life contradict it. Change the subject and get it away from the hot ones. It isn't worth it if you love each other.
If you don't love each other then it definitely isn't worth the drama.
Good luck. |
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JBCuzISaidSo Jaded Humanist

Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 2143 Local time: 2:14 PM Location: South Florida

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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| monkeybyte wrote: | Ask her to be consistant.
Why is she grasping for 'rational' explanations for your lack of faith?
Where is it in the bibble that states that nonbelievers are predetermined and are hellbound regardless of earthly intervention?
Who is she to question God? |
Boy, you did hit that. She is grasping on a daily basis for rationale. I keep saying it's not my problem if she can't deal with my feelings on that one topic (which I think about almost as much as which kind of toilet paper I should buy?) but yes it really does affect me that she can't get it.
I have pointed out things such as "If it's god's will, Mom, you have no say anyways?" and this only defuses her for a short time, and then I get that "phone call"......
You know, I will bring these back up to her. Maybe she didn't hear them times 1-99. The old story of The Tortoise and the Hare comes to mind.
| ShaSha wrote: | Get away from the religious drama and focus on why you love her and she you. Let her know that she didn't fail you and count the ways you love her Smile
There are some things that I don't discuss with my adult children because we disagree and anger can sometimes be the result. So we back off if we forgot and ventured there or we have a good argument and come to the same resolution that we would have had we not argued but something else was really the problem Smile
If she thinks measles caused you a problem tell her that your successes in life contradict it. Change the subject and get it away from the hot ones. It isn't worth it if you love each other.
If you don't love each other then it definitely isn't worth the drama.
Good luck. |
I can't argue you. I do love the woman, very very much. I am glad she is my own kids' lives even with her religious fundamentalism. I won't go into that on AF where most members don't look into the human behind the post LOL, but she is a benefit to both me and my children, always. I only got one mom although I did 'adopt' two more but that's another story heh......
It is tough for me ShaSha. I really, truly, deeply, do not believe in god, or anything supernatural. That's just me. She can't accept this.
I feel almost codependent clinging to this woman who, now, thinks I might be retarded because I don't believe so very deeply. It's a sickening feeling. I wouldn't have what I have now or even be what I am now if not for her...and between you and me when she thought I was at least an agnostic (her own version of the word doesn't match what it actually means, though) she really did claim me of her kids to be something with that extra bit that she was most proud of. "Her favorite"....though I don't mean that as she ignored my other siblings LOL. I was just the one measured to in life is all. Now....well maybe I'm autistic.....
With the conversation closed I probably won't be able to bring it up again without me pitching a fit. (Just like muh Momma lol, hold it all in then spout something stupid when it blows)
How would anybody else deal with it, besides me, the apparent codependent daughter of a fundamentally religious Adult Child of Alcoholics.....LOL _________________
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ShaSha Forum Master

Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 5541 Local time: 1:14 PM Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| JBCuzISaidSo wrote: |
I can't argue you. I do love the woman, very very much. I am glad she is my own kids' lives even with her religious fundamentalism. I won't go into that on AF where most members don't look into the human behind the post LOL, but she is a benefit to both me and my children, always. I only got one mom although I did 'adopt' two more but that's another story heh......
It is tough for me ShaSha. I really, truly, deeply, do not believe in god, or anything supernatural. That's just me. She can't accept this.
I feel almost codependent clinging to this woman who, now, thinks I might be retarded because I don't believe so very deeply. It's a sickening feeling. I wouldn't have what I have now or even be what I am now if not for her...and between you and me when she thought I was at least an agnostic (her own version of the word doesn't match what it actually means, though) she really did claim me of her kids to be something with that extra bit that she was most proud of. "Her favorite"....though I don't mean that as she ignored my other siblings LOL. I was just the one measured to in life is all. Now....well maybe I'm autistic.....
With the conversation closed I probably won't be able to bring it up again without me pitching a fit. (Just like muh Momma lol, hold it all in then spout something stupid when it blows)
How would anybody else deal with it, besides me, the apparent codependent daughter of a fundamentally religious Adult Child of Alcoholics.....LOL |
Since you do love her very much and want her in your life but feel you will need to discuss the situation, then try putting it aside for awhile. Focus on everything that is good about the relationship and if you can get her to agree. Strengthen what is good and then you can talk more in depth if necessary.
Use this thread to vent if you need to if something goes amiss with best laid plans Try not to brood over it though because that can increase the explosiveness beyond what it should be realistically.
Good luck. |
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ApostateLois Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers

Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 2069 Local time: 3:14 AM Location: In space, with a traffic cone

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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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"Mom, I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD and I never will. You DO believe in God and always will. That's the way it is, so please learn to live with it and quit making me feel like I'm worthless just because I don't share your beliefs." Then change the subject. You will have to repeat this about 250 times because Christians tend to be slow learners. Your mother truly believes you are going to the lake of fire and she wants to save your soul so you'll be in heaven with her forever. Too bad. If "God" (whatever that is) wanted you to be in heaven, he would make you a believer.  _________________ Kryten: Don't you believe that God exists in all things? Aren't you a Pantheist?
Lister: Yeah, I just don't think it applies to kitchen utensils. I'm not a Fryingpantheist. |
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Amberli <Something Profound>

Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 510 Local time: 12:14 PM Location: San Bernardino, CA

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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thank GOD my mom is a drunken crackwhore who I haven't heard from in years.  _________________ I smile because I don't know what the hell is going on.
Life is not about what happens to you. It's about how you fucking DEAL with what happens to you
Every guy here has an amazing relationship with his penis, almost like a friendship. |
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Pochoclo Forum Plebian


Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 166 Local time: 2:14 PM
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I see that in USA you usually have this kind of problem with your family or with your society in general. In a third world country like mine, not even my family care about my religion, and nobody fight about that, cause finding a really religious person is really hard around here. But in North America I see are too many 'bible people', like your mother.
But well, take care. _________________ R.I.P. Piero. We'll always remember you <3. |
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JBCuzISaidSo Jaded Humanist

Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 2143 Local time: 2:14 PM Location: South Florida

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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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ShaSha, you give good advice. I will try to let this one go, as much for her as for myself. Really, really. It'll be there in the back of my head though...."My own mother thinks I may be retarded." But you're right I need to stop the focusing. I'm pretty sure I'm not a dummy.
| ApostateLois wrote: | | "Mom, I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD and I never will. You DO believe in God and always will. That's the way it is, so please learn to live with it and quit making me feel like I'm worthless just because I don't share your beliefs." Then change the subject. You will have to repeat this about 250 times because Christians tend to be slow learners. Your mother truly believes you are going to the lake of fire and she wants to save your soul so you'll be in heaven with her forever. Too bad. If "God" (whatever that is) wanted you to be in heaven, he would make you a believer. Smile |
I wrote her a very long letter almost a year ago saying exactly that. Well, I skipped the "slow learners" bit. I have a dear (Christian) friend that has told me time and time again that I need to let her know that if god was up there he'd find me himself. Of course....I laugh quietly at this (god? come on! lulz!), but I understand what it means. Maybe someday she'll get it. I think her latest bout has to do with the copy of "Parenting Beyond Belief: Raising Children without Religion" that I gave her and MADE her take home.
Why is it such a shock to religious folks that there are, actually, human beings that they probably know very well and/or are related to that do NOT believe?
| Amberli wrote: |
Thank GOD my mom is a drunken crackwhore who I haven't heard from in years.  |
Dunno if I've ever said this to you before, but I have a huge platonic crush on you.
Wait, I'm supposed to be all "aww you poor thing/lucky devil". Heh, never mind, that made me laugh!
Thanks, Pochoclo. We do have that here, yes. I'm the only one in a humongous family of preachers, pastors, youth leaders, and general goddies that doesn't share their belief. I keep saying I'm the same as before only now they know but nobody is listening. _________________
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ApostateLois Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers

Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 2069 Local time: 3:14 AM Location: In space, with a traffic cone

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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Of course they aren't listening. They are like toddlers who have just found out that their little 3-year-old friend doesn't believe in Santa Claus. What?? No Santa?? Then where do the presents come from?? Substitute "God" for "Santa" and "morals" for "presents" and you have the Christian attitude in a nutshell. I'm sure you've already heard the "How can you be a good person without God?" argument, as well as the "Then you must think life has no meaning," and the "Wouldn't you rather believe in God and be right, then not believe in God and be wrong?" arguments.  _________________ Kryten: Don't you believe that God exists in all things? Aren't you a Pantheist?
Lister: Yeah, I just don't think it applies to kitchen utensils. I'm not a Fryingpantheist. |
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chookrooter Forum Master

Joined: 07 Jun 2008 Posts: 2248 Local time: 4:44 AM

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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you don't love each other then it definitely isn't worth the drama. |
Just so.
My 82 yr old mother is a devout Catholic. She is aware of my position and respects it because she loves and respects me,as I do her. We do not discuss religion.
However,it took some time for us each to realise I am under no obligation to meet her expectations nor she mine. A parent has no proprietary rights over a child,ever; a child is not a possession. Nor does a parent have any directive rights over an adult child.
"Parent"and "child" are descriptions of relationship and of roles. Imo Healthy relationships are based on mutual respect, not control,which is what this mother seems to be trying to do; control her son.
Expectations that others will (or "should") change are usually mistaken.
Mother will not change, nor is there any reason she" should"; she is not responsible to you,nor you to her. Your choices are; to accept your mother as she is or leave. If you wish to stay,you may need to change your behaviour.
It's not the end of the world if mother gets upset. Avoidance of parental disapproval or the seeking of approval are not good enough reasons in themselves, for any action,imo. These are of course common tools of parental manipulation.
I left home at 18 because I could not live in the same house as my father. Our relationship improved quite a lot, but still left a lot to be desired. The result was from that from then (1966) until his death in 2006, we were never close and did not see each other often.
Sometimes being true to yourself, and your own person is the harder choice,with a painful consequences..
0000000000000000000000000000----------------------------------------------------000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Thought for today "Men marry expecting that their wives will not change,but they do. Women marry expecting their husbands will change, but they don't" (anon) |
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kmisho Stochastic

Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 4809 Local time: 5:14 AM Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Pochoclo wrote: | I see that in USA you usually have this kind of problem with your family or with your society in general. In a third world country like mine, not even my family care about my religion, and nobody fight about that, cause finding a really religious person is really hard around here. But in North America I see are too many 'bible people', like your mother.
But well, take care. |
The US has tons of religion for 2 reasons.
1) Free market competition between churches
2) People are bloated and lazy and have nothing better to do than worry about what their neighbors are up to _________________ K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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chookrooter Forum Master

Joined: 07 Jun 2008 Posts: 2248 Local time: 4:44 AM

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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 2) People are bloated and lazy and have nothing better to do than worry about what their neighbors are up to |
I assume you ARE taking the piss? I mean, surely no one on this forum could possibly be that dumb?
Oops, I think that's a logical fallacy, argument from incredulity.
Oh shit,you're serious? Oh dear, I'm so sorry; get well soon. . |
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munky99999 Provisional moralist.

Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4671 Local time: 2:14 PM Location: Ontario, Canada

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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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I've kind of destroyed my family's religion so bad. They are all either Homer Simpson believers or atheist basically. The only negative thing related to religion with me was my mom asking me if I were gay... I explained that I'm out of the atheist closet; I'd have no problem coming out of the fag closet. Unfortunately im not gay so I cant use it as an advantage.
I have a friend in the military who was gay(also in the navy ironically) who literally went to a firefighter station looking to get a job and said that they arent hiring unless he was a minority. He asked what kind of minority they are hiring. They pulled out a list and homosexual was on the list. He explained to them that he was a fag. They then discriminate against him right in his face right on camera. He makes a scene and the whole thing went to court(not all the way to court)... government official in a sense discriminating after saying they will only hiring minorities... he got a nice settlement to keep it quiet. He then joined the navy for the hell of it. Where he kind of messed that up a little bit. He is apparently a friend of the MORAN Queen from the UK. His picture that he displayed in his room was of him and the queen. The sergeant or whatever asked him if the photo was photoshopped. He said no that he was a friend to the queen. The sergeant then hated the fact that he believed he lied outright to the him. So they started fucking him over and then started getting on his case so much to get him to break... but then he wouldnt do it because he was so fit. They then started calling him a fag and a woman and stuff... trying to mess with him psychologically. Too which he took badly. They then washed him out of the platoon and he couldnt get on to another platoon so he essentially had to quit. BUT he started a harassment investigation so they kept him in the forces because they want minorities in the forces... not to mention they dont want minorities to be harassed and quitting. So he was just sitting around doing nothing for a year while I was around. The harassment thing eventually came back with nothing because nobody would talk. However he proved a couple things... like he'd gotten a christmas card from the queen. Plus a couple other things; but he still got out of the military.
As for Original topic ... Stop talking with your mother completely. If she ever calls... Say "hello; I'm sorry I'm too retarded to understand you." Then hang-up. Why bother dealing _________________ A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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Pochoclo Forum Plebian


Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 166 Local time: 2:14 PM
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | Pochoclo wrote: | I see that in USA you usually have this kind of problem with your family or with your society in general. In a third world country like mine, not even my family care about my religion, and nobody fight about that, cause finding a really religious person is really hard around here. But in North America I see are too many 'bible people', like your mother.
But well, take care. |
The US has tons of religion for 2 reasons.
1) Free market competition between churches
2) People are bloated and lazy and have nothing better to do than worry about what their neighbors are up to |
Competition of religion? now THAT is progress  _________________ R.I.P. Piero. We'll always remember you <3. |
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