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Tormentor
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 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: How do you Christians feel about gnostics? |
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Not Knowledgists, but instead, the mystical movement that is ancient. It was once prominent in many areas of the middle east, and I believe eastern europe. Now there are many revivals that are quite true to the original as far as we know. Being that I associate with modern day gnostics, how do Christians who do not practice anything but what catholics designated as the true bible feel about this group?
Just curious. I figure they are grossly incompatible with one another philosophically, as the gnostic version of god is not an all knowing all powerful being, but instead he is viewed as more of a malevolent being who imprisoned us in these bodies. I don't believe they view the snake as evil, and I'm about 95% sure (statistics are worthless but you get the idea) that they do not believe the snake was an angel, but instead he is viewed as more of a liberator. Another incompatibility is that Jesus is seen as an embodiment of the benevolent supreme being that exists alongside Yahweh. He was said to have come here to bring us esoteric spiritual knowledge to free us from our material prisons.
So, lay it on the line for me. How do you feel about Gnostics? |
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chookrooter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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An atheist does not believe in god(s).
This atheist does not believe the supernatural, not even an impersonal but sentient creator.
I've always seem gnosticism as a form of theism,so reject it outright. |
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Dawkadoodle
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Gnosticism is some sort of awesome, Christian Gnosticism especially- Specifically the Christian Gnostic cults that want to kill YHWH instead of just being freed. |
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chookrooter
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Gnosticism is some sort of awesome, Christian Gnosticism especially- Specifically the Christian Gnostic cults that want to kill YHWH instead of just being freed. |
Well yes,it does have that redeeming quality.  .
Perhaps one reason the early church hated them so much,and tried so hard to wipe them out. The duality of "The Manichean heresy" is I think a more rational belief system than the christian so obviously could not be tolerated.
From memory, I think it took them about 1000 years to get rid of the gnostics as a significant threat...Inventing the devil helped a lot. I think the Cathars were the last known major group of gnostics wiped out,with the last known Cathar master being executed in the C14th. However,it could be argued that was more about wealth and power rather than doctrine.
Last edited by chookrooter on Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nidias91
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: |
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can someone explain to me exactly what gnosticism is... i don't really get the definitions on wikipedia.
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SvZurich
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:46 am Post subject: |
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The gnostics also infiltrated the church. 
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romans120
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: Re: How do you Christians feel about gnostics? |
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| Tormentor wrote: | Not Knowledgists, but instead, the mystical movement that is ancient. It was once prominent in many areas of the middle east, and I believe eastern europe. Now there are many revivals that are quite true to the original as far as we know. Being that I associate with modern day gnostics, how do Christians who do not practice anything but what catholics designated as the true bible feel about this group?
Just curious. I figure they are grossly incompatible with one another philosophically, as the gnostic version of god is not an all knowing all powerful being, but instead he is viewed as more of a malevolent being who imprisoned us in these bodies. I don't believe they view the snake as evil, and I'm about 95% sure (statistics are worthless but you get the idea) that they do not believe the snake was an angel, but instead he is viewed as more of a liberator. Another incompatibility is that Jesus is seen as an embodiment of the benevolent supreme being that exists alongside Yahweh. He was said to have come here to bring us esoteric spiritual knowledge to free us from our material prisons.
So, lay it on the line for me. How do you feel about Gnostics? |
I am not sure if this helps...but Eusibius tells of an interaction John the Apostle had with Cerinthus, a pre-gnostic teacher. John went to use the public bath house and upon seeing Cerinthus inside flees saying "Let us flee lest the bath should fall in, as long as Cerinthus that enemy of truth is with in."
If you look at all of Johns letters (Gospel of John, 1st, 2nd, 3rd John and Revelation) they each have strong reactions against this early gnostic teaching. However, gnosticism didn't become a unified and identifiable system until the 2nd century.
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
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romans120
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| nidias91 wrote: | | can someone explain to me exactly what gnosticism is... i don't really get the definitions on wikipedia. |
I for sure can't do better then the wikki but maybe my laymans understanding of it will help connect the dots. Gnosticism was birthed in greek paganism. It believes that all physical and tangible objects are intrinsically evil. And all spiritual objects are good. The way to escape evil is to acquire a special knowledge of the good/spiritual hence the name "gnostics" the greek word for knowledge is gnosis.
In order to acquire this elite higher knowledge was to have experiences. So it was a very licentious system where one could do whatever one pleases since your intrinsically evil anyway in order to have these experiences that lead to higher knowledge.
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Tormentor
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| But Romans, you did not answer the question. How do YOU feel about gnostics? Perhaps a why would be good too. |
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kmisho
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Gnosticism was birthed in greek paganism. It believes that all physical and tangible objects are intrinsically evil. And all spiritual objects are good. |
But doesn't this make sense even in modern orthodoxy in light of "original sin"?
Plus there's the more mundane aspect of finding it hard to attribute goodness to the god of the flood and the god of the passover. Killing all the firstborn males in a large area is not terribly flattering. It makes a lot more sense to say this god, the creator god of the old testament, was evil.
| Quote: | | The way to escape evil is to acquire a special knowledge of the good/spiritual hence the name "gnostics" the greek word for knowledge is gnosis. |
This bit is pretty much in alignment with your own beliefs, I bet.
| Quote: | | In order to acquire this elite higher knowledge was to have experiences.So it was a very licentious system where one could do whatever one pleases since your intrinsically evil anyway in order to have these experiences that lead to higher knowledge. |
Propaganda. Historical bad-mouthing of a losing sect. The idea was to know the god beyond creation, the real god. Gnsoticism was aescetic, not hedonistic. Sheesh.
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Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
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romans120
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Tormentor wrote: | | But Romans, you did not answer the question. How do YOU feel about gnostics? Perhaps a why would be good too. |
I usually feel slightly warm and happy when I think of them. but There are times though that while I am thinking about them I begin to feel empty and have this sense of a lack of satisfaction. Like I have an intense need thats not being met. I begin to feel this pressure build and all my only desire is to experience relief. But when this happens I go use the bathroom and eat a tuna sandwich and it goes away
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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truly.. what is better in life than eating a tuna fish sandwich in the bathroom?
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | truly.. what is better in life than eating a tuna fish sandwich in the bathroom? |
Fo shizzle. |
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SvZurich
Loki's Little Valkyrie
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | truly.. what is better in life than eating a tuna fish sandwich in the bathroom? |
Fo shizzle. |
A really good shit coupled with internet surfing on a 3G phone. Or substitute a game system.
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chookrooter
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | truly.. what is better in life than eating a tuna fish sandwich in the bathroom? |
I guess it depends on what one happens to be doing at the time.  |
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