Monkeywolf and Anton Batey discussion.

Anton Batey

Meeting a friend from YouTube in this forum so we can have a civil theological discussion.

Hit_me_up024 · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject:

whats it about you can share you know
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I know the game is crazy it's mo' crazy than it's ever been. I'm married to that crazy BITCH call me kevin federline.

Props to Enemy_of_Reality

Hit_me_up024 · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject:

oh and it doesnt have to be that civil, welcome bra
_________________
I know the game is crazy it's mo' crazy than it's ever been. I'm married to that crazy BITCH call me kevin federline.

Props to Enemy_of_Reality

RyanDzundza · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:46 am Post subject:

if you two want a debate on your own then i would set up a one on one thread, incase you didnt see it, which you probs did anyway lol

EDIT

holy shit when did i pass 4,000 posts Shocked

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monkeywolf · Visitor Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 7 Local time: 12:36 AM

Ah O.K. Well first off let me just say hello to everyone on these forums and who reads this. I also want to say I am not an atheist or agnostic I have my own beliefs and so I do kindly ask you respect that just as I respect your own beliefs.

Ok anyways into what I would like to know.

You said in your debate with Pastor C00k that you were once into the Bible and you did believe, but then you said that you found that the more you read into the Bible and read into other sources the more you started to not believe. If you could please explain that more, I know you tried t in the debate but with such limited time it seemed more rushed and I also believe you said you were sick which lead to coughing or clearing your throat on the phone, although you did also say you tried to put the phone down when you could.

I would also like to understand that if you are an atheist-agnostic, as you put it and I don't mean for this to sound sarcastic or mean so I apologize if it comes across that way, what exactly are your full beliefs, if you don't mind sharing of course, because that is somewhat a contradiction because if I am not mistake agnostics believe there is some kind of being out there but it isn't God as the Christians view him.

JBCuzISaidSo · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:59 am Post subject:

agnostic

gnostic

OR

Gnos·ti·cism

Especially important to understand English is understanding where that a- comes from, and what it means.

a-

ab-

an-

ne-

a- means not in the case of a-gnostic v gnostic, and a-theist v theist.
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LakeGeorgeMan · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:54 am Post subject:

romans120 · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:16 am Post subject:

Welcome monkeywolf and antonbatey If you don't want extra participants we can move this to the one on one section if you like. If not thats fine carry on
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20

Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/

Mr_C

Anton Batey & monkeywolf:
Just say the word and this thread is in our one-on-one forum.
On a personal note, I like the format so far and hope you guys decide to continue the conversation!

Edit: romans with the quick draw!

romans120

LakeGeorgeMan · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:43 am Post subject:

monkeywolf · Visitor Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 7 Local time: 12:36 AM

I would like to say thank you to the Moderators for being very kind and offering to move this to one-on-one discussion, however I am fine with it being open but I will leave the choice to move it to Mr. Anton Batey, and I also would like to thank the warm welcome. Unlike most other theists I have no problem with atheists or agnostics, I got a problem with nihilists though they make me depressed Sad

, and a few close friends to me, whom I could consider brothers, are atheists so I am very accepting of your views.

Secondly to those whom posted the definitions and explanations to atheist and agnostic that was very welcome I myself wasn't quiet sure of the difference 100%.

Thirdly I would like to point out that hopefully Mr. Batey will come on today because i am eager to speak with him. Unlike some eccentric atheists, I mean they are like those people who wave the Bible around shouting the end is near kind of people, he actually presents facts and evidence. If anyone of you haven't seen his debate with Pastor C00k on YouTube I do highly suggest checking it out it is an amazing debate.

@LakeGeorgeMan

I single you out simply because of the example you put down were very, very, very, well put down, as for those questions I am not sure if those are meant for me to answer or if you are just saying them to get your point across further if they are please do let me know I have no problem talking about my beliefs I just won't openly start ranting away on them.

MonkeyWolf

Wickedtruth · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:46 am Post subject:

hehe...he is both a monkey and a wolf Razz

Anton Batey · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject:

monkeywolf · Visitor Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 7 Local time: 12:36 AM

Ah, ok I understand your point on the agnostic-atheist point. Also you are quiet right with your point on when you debate with people and they do bring up good points, like you yourself did with Pastor C00k, you want to deny it but you know they are right. However, the main thing with religion of any kind is that everything is more based on faith rather then solid facts. As one of my friends said, who is an atheist now he was a devote Christian, he said that if he could be any religion he would want to be a Jew or a Hindu simply because those two were really the first two religions on a wide spread scale.

However as much as I do agree with you that the Bible does actually have stories from other "pagan" religions. If you look at the Stories of Gilgamesh or other stories from say Hinduism, they have a lot in common with the Bible and in some cases are almost an exact match!

For me though this only strengthened my belief in God. The only thing that use to actually shake my faith was when people would bring into the context of where is the proof that Jesus lived ASIDE from the Bible. Well to be honest there isn't too much proof outside of the Bible. Some Christians will say this is because he was such a threat to the Roman Empire they tried to wipe all existence of him from this world. However that isn't a good answer for me my father raised me to be a scientist and to apply logic to everything I do.

See what is funny that you rarely see, or that I have rarely seen I should say I don't know if you have or haven't, stuff on the proof of Jesus's life or if the mass Exodus of the Hebrews was true, and to be honest I was also teetering on being an atheist myself until I had actually end up watching a show on History International called the Naked Archeologist. Of course this isn't too good of a source in the first place since it is TV, but it happened that they were discussing clues to Mt. Sinai, the place where Moses was given the 10 Commandments for those who don't know, and as it turns out they ended up triangulating the position of the mountain using clues from the Bible itself.

Turns out that the mountain the found that was perfectly in the spot had been used before by other religious groups and that they had even found evidence of things such as large fires and camp sites. I believe they even dated some of the stuff to around the time period of when Moses would have led the Hebrews out of Egypt, however don't quote me on that I am not 100% sure.

Along with this, and using the TV show itself as my first basic point to begin researching, again not the best choice but I find it to be better then websites like Wikipedia for religious research, I ended up snooping around to discover that indeed they have been finding such finds as a Pharaoh's tomb that contains hieroglyphics depicting the Exodus itself, they have even found some records in the sites of Ancient Rome that, supposedly, have records of Jesus on them, I say supposedly because I am only 85% sure on that. They have also found a wooden head board, like the ones used when crucifying someone, that did say Jesus of Nazareth on it.

While of course this can all be disputed or proven false, I mean anyone remember the "ancient" copy of the book of Deuteronomy that was proven to be a fake? With all this my faith had been confirmed. So what are your thoughts on all of that? I mean scientists and archeologists are going out there and trying to find just if this stuff did happen, what are your thoughts on it do you think they might actually succeed and find that God could very well exist or is it still just going to remain something of an issue of faith?

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