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Why has religion survived?
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Moloth
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Revelations:

1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. (1:13-16)
Jesus has white hair, eyes of fire, feet of brass, and has a sword sticking out of his mouth.
1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. "He had in his right hand seven stars."
Jesus holds seven stars in his hand. Of course, it is possible that this is metaphorical. Perhaps. But it is clear from other verses (6:13, 8:10, 12:4) that John thought of stars as being small, perhaps even small enough for Jesus to hold in his hand.
"I am the first and the last."
Is Jesus God?
1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
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Missionary
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moloth wrote:
Missionary wrote:
I was replying to ,"Religion is the cause of many of the horrible(evil?) things that men do." which a version of the claim I've read around the net and sprinkled about in these very forums. The variations are, "most wars..", "all wars...", 'suffering, misery, fights, problems,..." and whatever blame one wants to shift is heaped upon 'religion' and usually Christianity.

Man's suffering, disease, crime, wars, conflicts, financial problems, bowel blockages and any other muck you can throw is not in fact caused by "...religion and especially Christianity" but is caused by a humanity corrupted by sin. The evidence is crime, courts, prisons, police, armies, wars, bombs. The existence of these entities were not brought about by faith in God but are symptomatic behaviors of those not walking with God.

Jesus did not espouse or imply crime, hate, bigotry, war, injury, fighting, insults, political anarchy, socialism, or any other humanistic program. Jesus message was simple: Love God and Love your neighbor. It gets no simpler and yet man rejects the simple.


O RLY?

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/sword.html

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.


And as it turns out it's a pretty impressive prophecy. Dawkins is rallying the troops now. Maybe you missed John 15?

So what is this sword exactly? Does Jesus reveal what it is in Revelations?
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Moloth
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

lol... its... a SWORD... what use DOES it have?

its.. uh.. a sword of hugging puppies, right? am i right? Laughing

by the way, i just totally destroyed your claim about Jesus...

"Jesus did not espouse or imply crime, hate, bigotry, war, injury, fighting, insults, political anarchy, socialism, or any other humanistic program. Jesus message was simple: Love God and Love your neighbor. It gets no simpler and yet man rejects the simple."

uh, no. your own holy book proves you wrong.
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Isambard
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Same reason why politics and ideology has survived. Folks like to really really believe in things.
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Missionary
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moloth wrote:
lol... its... a SWORD... what use DOES it have?

its.. uh.. a sword of hugging puppies, right? am i right? Laughing

by the way, i just totally destroyed your claim about Jesus...

"Jesus did not espouse or imply crime, hate, bigotry, war, injury, fighting, insults, political anarchy, socialism, or any other humanistic program. Jesus message was simple: Love God and Love your neighbor. It gets no simpler and yet man rejects the simple."

uh, no. your own holy book proves you wrong.


Greek Strong's Number: #3162 (machaira) is used figuratively. In Revelations #4501 (rhomphaia) is used in relation to Christ, others refer to #3162 (knife)

Here's an example of "Christ's sword" which is G4501 : Luke 2:35 (KJV)
35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

#3162= Ephesians 6:17 (KJV)
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: <- This is the figurative use.

Also- Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
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Moloth
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Moloth wrote:
Missionary wrote:
I was replying to ,"Religion is the cause of many of the horrible(evil?) things that men do." which a version of the claim I've read around the net and sprinkled about in these very forums. The variations are, "most wars..", "all wars...", 'suffering, misery, fights, problems,..." and whatever blame one wants to shift is heaped upon 'religion' and usually Christianity.

Man's suffering, disease, crime, wars, conflicts, financial problems, bowel blockages and any other muck you can throw is not in fact caused by "...religion and especially Christianity" but is caused by a humanity corrupted by sin. The evidence is crime, courts, prisons, police, armies, wars, bombs. The existence of these entities were not brought about by faith in God but are symptomatic behaviors of those not walking with God.

Jesus did not espouse or imply crime, hate, bigotry, war, injury, fighting, insults, political anarchy, socialism, or any other humanistic program. Jesus message was simple: Love God and Love your neighbor. It gets no simpler and yet man rejects the simple.


O RLY?

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/sword.html

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.



you're not even arguing against ME, Miss... you're arguing against your own illogical and self-contradictory book of mythologies...
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Missionary
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you won't admit you're wrong. This is for those who might believe you if I didn't print the truth.

There's no question that your faith in the super collider killing God is unflappable. and the Smokin'Gun. oh,oh,.. Dawkins.
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Moloth
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Missionary wrote:
I know you won't admit you're wrong. This is for those who might believe you if I didn't print the truth.

There's no question that your faith in the super collider killing God is unflappable. and the Smokin'Gun. oh,oh,.. Dawkins.



hey, don't get pissy with ME because your own Bible makes no sense and contradicts itself. *shrug*
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aitm
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Moloth wrote:
Moloth wrote:
Missionary wrote:
I was replying to ,"Religion is the cause of many of the horrible(evil?) things that men do." which a version of the claim I've read around the net and sprinkled about in these very forums. The variations are, "most wars..", "all wars...", 'suffering, misery, fights, problems,..." and whatever blame one wants to shift is heaped upon 'religion' and usually Christianity.

Man's suffering, disease, crime, wars, conflicts, financial problems, bowel blockages and any other muck you can throw is not in fact caused by "...religion and especially Christianity" but is caused by a humanity corrupted by sin. The evidence is crime, courts, prisons, police, armies, wars, bombs. The existence of these entities were not brought about by faith in God but are symptomatic behaviors of those not walking with God.

Jesus did not espouse or imply crime, hate, bigotry, war, injury, fighting, insults, political anarchy, socialism, or any other humanistic program. Jesus message was simple: Love God and Love your neighbor. It gets no simpler and yet man rejects the simple.


O RLY?

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/sword.html

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.



you're not even arguing against ME, Miss... you're arguing against your own illogical and self-contradictory book of mythologies...


And the winner, by TKO is Moloth. Sorry Mis, he had ya on the contradictions, and you knew it, thats why you changed the subject.
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The reality is: The majority of Christians are, because they have never read the Bible, whereas the majority of Atheists are, because they have. tjb
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Hugga_Bear
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:17 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

miss, walk away from this one you've lost. Big time.

Newman what the hell are you on about? LOL 75% ISN'T RELIGION SO RELIGION IS GOOD YEAH? LOLZORS!?!

You find a way to get rid of man's personal desire for power and I will give you a clap, if we managed to find a cure for 25% of all diseases do you think the world's gonna go "well, yeah that's ok I guess, but what about the rest? I mean, really, you failed." No, it wouldn't.

Grow up and see the truth, those figures are damned proof enough that even if a God did exist worshipping it is certainly not a good idea.

Missionary where did you get the figures that say only 16% of those icarcerated are religious, I think you'll find it is well above 70% in the US. Also if you would kindly look at the problem across states you will find, miracle of miracles that those states which are more religious have a higher criminal rate, more murders etc. etc. The evidence is there, stop wrapping duct tape round your eyes and look for once in your life.

Good day.
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Newman
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Hugga_Bear wrote:
miss, walk away from this one you've lost. Big time.

Newman what the hell are you on about? LOL 75% ISN'T RELIGION SO RELIGION IS GOOD YEAH? LOLZORS!?!

You find a way to get rid of man's personal desire for power and I will give you a clap, if we managed to find a cure for 25% of all diseases do you think the world's gonna go "well, yeah that's ok I guess, but what about the rest? I mean, really, you failed." No, it wouldn't.

Grow up and see the truth, those figures are damned proof enough that even if a God did exist worshipping it is certainly not a good idea.

Missionary where did you get the figures that say only 16% of those icarcerated are religious, I think you'll find it is well above 70% in the US. Also if you would kindly look at the problem across states you will find, miracle of miracles that those states which are more religious have a higher criminal rate, more murders etc. etc. The evidence is there, stop wrapping duct tape round your eyes and look for once in your life.

Good day.


not intended to shrug off the 25%, not at all, a 1/4 of any issue is an important percentage to say the least, its a lost point as you guys simply will not accept any proof, even secular
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Moloth
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Newman wrote:
Hugga_Bear wrote:
miss, walk away from this one you've lost. Big time.

Newman what the hell are you on about? LOL 75% ISN'T RELIGION SO RELIGION IS GOOD YEAH? LOLZORS!?!

You find a way to get rid of man's personal desire for power and I will give you a clap, if we managed to find a cure for 25% of all diseases do you think the world's gonna go "well, yeah that's ok I guess, but what about the rest? I mean, really, you failed." No, it wouldn't.

Grow up and see the truth, those figures are damned proof enough that even if a God did exist worshipping it is certainly not a good idea.

Missionary where did you get the figures that say only 16% of those icarcerated are religious, I think you'll find it is well above 70% in the US. Also if you would kindly look at the problem across states you will find, miracle of miracles that those states which are more religious have a higher criminal rate, more murders etc. etc. The evidence is there, stop wrapping duct tape round your eyes and look for once in your life.

Good day.


not intended to shrug off the 25%, not at all, a 1/4 of any issue is an important percentage to say the least, its a lost point as you guys simply will not accept any proof, even secular


proof of what, exactly, newman?
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Newman
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Moloth wrote:
Newman wrote:
Hugga_Bear wrote:
miss, walk away from this one you've lost. Big time.

Newman what the hell are you on about? LOL 75% ISN'T RELIGION SO RELIGION IS GOOD YEAH? LOLZORS!?!

You find a way to get rid of man's personal desire for power and I will give you a clap, if we managed to find a cure for 25% of all diseases do you think the world's gonna go "well, yeah that's ok I guess, but what about the rest? I mean, really, you failed." No, it wouldn't.

Grow up and see the truth, those figures are damned proof enough that even if a God did exist worshipping it is certainly not a good idea.

Missionary where did you get the figures that say only 16% of those icarcerated are religious, I think you'll find it is well above 70% in the US. Also if you would kindly look at the problem across states you will find, miracle of miracles that those states which are more religious have a higher criminal rate, more murders etc. etc. The evidence is there, stop wrapping duct tape round your eyes and look for once in your life.

Good day.


not intended to shrug off the 25%, not at all, a 1/4 of any issue is an important percentage to say the least, its a lost point as you guys simply will not accept any proof, even secular


proof of what, exactly, newman?


again, moot point to revived this, hard facts and were not accepted so lets move on
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Moloth
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Newman wrote:
Moloth wrote:
Newman wrote:
Hugga_Bear wrote:
miss, walk away from this one you've lost. Big time.

Newman what the hell are you on about? LOL 75% ISN'T RELIGION SO RELIGION IS GOOD YEAH? LOLZORS!?!

You find a way to get rid of man's personal desire for power and I will give you a clap, if we managed to find a cure for 25% of all diseases do you think the world's gonna go "well, yeah that's ok I guess, but what about the rest? I mean, really, you failed." No, it wouldn't.

Grow up and see the truth, those figures are damned proof enough that even if a God did exist worshipping it is certainly not a good idea.

Missionary where did you get the figures that say only 16% of those icarcerated are religious, I think you'll find it is well above 70% in the US. Also if you would kindly look at the problem across states you will find, miracle of miracles that those states which are more religious have a higher criminal rate, more murders etc. etc. The evidence is there, stop wrapping duct tape round your eyes and look for once in your life.

Good day.


not intended to shrug off the 25%, not at all, a 1/4 of any issue is an important percentage to say the least, its a lost point as you guys simply will not accept any proof, even secular


proof of what, exactly, newman?


again, moot point to revived this, hard facts and were not accepted so lets move on


Laughing Laughing

you're dodging and changing the subject! Laughing


like i said before I'll even ACCEPT those numbers! BUT, you don;t even know what they MEAN! Laughing

you know you don;t have a leg to stand on!
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Moloth wrote:
Newman wrote:
Moloth wrote:
Newman wrote:
Hugga_Bear wrote:
miss, walk away from this one you've lost. Big time.

Newman what the hell are you on about? LOL 75% ISN'T RELIGION SO RELIGION IS GOOD YEAH? LOLZORS!?!

You find a way to get rid of man's personal desire for power and I will give you a clap, if we managed to find a cure for 25% of all diseases do you think the world's gonna go "well, yeah that's ok I guess, but what about the rest? I mean, really, you failed." No, it wouldn't.

Grow up and see the truth, those figures are damned proof enough that even if a God did exist worshipping it is certainly not a good idea.

Missionary where did you get the figures that say only 16% of those icarcerated are religious, I think you'll find it is well above 70% in the US. Also if you would kindly look at the problem across states you will find, miracle of miracles that those states which are more religious have a higher criminal rate, more murders etc. etc. The evidence is there, stop wrapping duct tape round your eyes and look for once in your life.

Good day.


not intended to shrug off the 25%, not at all, a 1/4 of any issue is an important percentage to say the least, its a lost point as you guys simply will not accept any proof, even secular


proof of what, exactly, newman?


again, moot point to revived this, hard facts and were not accepted so lets move on


Laughing Laughing

you're dodging and changing the subject! Laughing


like i said before I'll even ACCEPT those numbers! BUT, you don;t even know what they MEAN! Laughing

you know you don;t have a leg to stand on!


nice bait, but very wrong, not wasting my time with you this week Smile too busy
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