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jaycorath
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Joined: 05 Sep 2004
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 Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'll go ahead and admit I was partly fulla shit in what you just quoted 
The few things I've actually heard I didn't like, but I haven't really listened to him at all
But he is your average tax and spend liberal, right? Punish people who are successful, give handouts to losers?
P.S. I'm not sober at the moment 
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Philosophos
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jkorath wrote: | | But he is your average tax and spend liberal, right? Punish people who are successful, give handouts to losers? |
No. He's pretty pro-market. Not as pro-market as I'd like (Bill Richardson is still more my style, and even he may be to the left of me economically), and he DID pander a lot to Ohio people and Indiana people about NAFTA n' shit. But read his white papers, and listen to his plans. They are pretty pro-growth, and anti-control. Note the lack of mandates in his health care plan & his pro-cap-and-trade stances, for instance.
His economic plans will cost more than he's projecting I'm sure, but I would not call him a tax-and-spend liberal. I believe he will help to, at the very least, reduce the deficit.
I was quite anti-Obama before I took a good look at him, mainly because he seemed the fashionable rising-star black guy that some people still paint him as. But after I took a look at his plans and his chosen advisors, I was convinced. He's actually a candidate I support, as opposed to the lesser of all evils. To be sure, he doesn't completely reflect my stances. Nor does Paul. Nor does any politician that I know of. But he's good enough for government work.
| Quote: | | P.S. I'm not sober at the moment |
I know you won't believe me, but I almost typed "are you high" in my response to you. LOL.
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KL79
Royal Citizen
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 427
Local time: 8:33 PM
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jkorath wrote: | Well, I'll go ahead and admit I was partly fulla shit in what you just quoted
The few things I've actually heard I didn't like, but I haven't really listened to him at all
But he is your average tax and spend liberal, right? Punish people who are successful, give handouts to losers?
P.S. I'm not sober at the moment |
I love how Repugs always say stuff like that. like Republicans are these great successful people, lets get real most of these rich "Republican" jobs involve fucking over the little guy, and taking a look at your occupation I'd say you have one of those jobs |
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jaycorath
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Joined: 05 Sep 2004
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Local time: 5:33 PM
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Philosophos,
Honestly, I haven't been paying attention to any of the campaign BS except the occasional parody on a comedy show. or like with the Rev. Wright stuff where you don't have a choice but to hear about it.
Especially with primaries, since I'm not affiliated with any party, I don't really give a fuck. When there's only two people left I'll start to pay attention. I mean, don't even know who the VPs are going to be. In John McCain's case, its rather important
Its all so tiring, the politics in this country. I really try to take politicians seriously but its nearly impossible. To quote a John Stewart standup bit from the mid 90's, "I've seen more believable characters on Melrose Place. Who do they think they're kidding?!?"
Thank you though, for reminding me about his health care thing. I do kind of like the way he is proposing to do that. I've read a little bit about it because my brother told me some stuff about it and i was interested.
Anyways, these damn campaigns last forever, so bottom line is that I ignore most of it till the end. But I do think Obama is a ok guy. Or at least, I give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
KL79,
In some cases its true. I would be less annoyed by the taxing if they didn't spend all of the tax money on stupid shit, which is what i meant by "handouts". Sure, republicans love to spend money on stupid shit, but democrats are better at it. They waste my fucking money and it pisses me off. One republican ideal I agree with is small government. (Too bad the party has failed that one miserably). i also am for being fiscally conservative. (another thing they fail miserably at). At least with republicans its supposed to be what they do. Bottom line: If the democrats want to shrink government and balance the stupid fuckin' budget they'll have my support in that.
Are there rich Republicans that make a buck out of screwing the little guy? Sure. Do you think that rich assholes make up the majority of the party? There aren't enough evil rich guys.
As for my job, I do not fuck over the little guy nor the little gal. I make a goddamn honest living and the people i work with are all honest, hardworking people. Lets see, whats a couple things I've done recently at work to fuck over the little guy? Oh I know, when I helped an old lady recover hundreds of thousands of dollars that her creep nephew stole from her or helped a nonprofit charitable organization get tax exempt status so they could better help sick and infirm old people. Or when I help small family businesses incorporate... booo, hisssss......Yeah, fuck the little guy.
I'm not all that fond of the republicans but I think you're overgeneralizing a bit.
_________________
"I love and treasure individuals as I meet them; I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to" -George Carlin
Celebrant: Forgive us, Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying.
Congregation: And bare-faced flattery.
--Monty Python's The Meaning of Life |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
Local time: 9:33 PM
Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| jkorath wrote: | | Especially with primaries, since I'm not affiliated with any party, I don't really give a fuck. |
I'd rather not be affiliated with any party either. In some states I've lived in, though, you have to be to be involved in primaries. In that case, I tend to register Democratic, as the Republicans tend to be too socially conservative for my tastes, and I do put social liberties above economic ones (although most Republicans suck on economics, too - just in a different way from most Democrats). But I am by no means a "loyal" Democrat. Nor am I loyal to any party. If I were in a state where I could vote in the primary of my choice as an independent, though, I certainly would register independent.
| Quote: | | I really try to take politicians seriously but its nearly impossible. |
I'm sorry, but I disagree. There ARE some good politicians, overall. Tell me that Robert Byrd was not against the war in Iraq with all his heart and soul if you see his speech on the Senate floor. Tell me that he wasn't trying to do good right then and there.
| Quote: | | Thank you though, for reminding me about his health care thing. I do kind of like the way he is proposing to do that. |
Meh. I kinda don't. I think it could be better. But it's the best of what's been proposed. I'm not an Obama-tard by any means.
For health care, you gotta ask yourself two things:
1) Can our current system be better? My answer's yes.
2) Can government help with it? Again, my answer's yes.
Do I think Obama's plan is the best? No. Personally, I'd do it differently.
Do I think that Obama's plan will help in the end? I think so, though I'm not entirely sure.
Is Obama's plan the best there is from the three remaining major candidates? Yes. I'm fairly certain that it is.
Those facts alone help me support Obama. He ain't perfect, but hey, who is?
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Ivan_Ivanov
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Those facts alone help me support Obama. He ain't perfect, but hey, who is? |
Me?
I guess I should look into it myself, but what exactly is pro-market in Obama's healthcare plan if he wants the government to help with it?
I guess it could be less interventionist then other plans, but if you call mandatory insurance "command economy" then nothing short of complete laissez-faire should be considered pro-market by you
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Philosophos
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: | | I guess I should look into it myself, but what exactly is pro-market in Obama's healthcare plan if he wants the government to help with it? |
Nothing. I don't think I called his health care plan "pro-market" above. Nor do I think that health care problems should be solved completely by market forces.
But I don't believe socialized medicine is the answer either.
What I did was call Obama "pretty pro-market", and his healthcare plan somewhat "anti-control".
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Ivan_Ivanov
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | Nor do I think that health care problems should be solved completely by market forces.
But I don't believe socialized medicine is the answer either. |
That doesn't leave you with much room for CHANGE
| Quote: | | What I did was call Obama "pretty pro-market", and his healthcare plan somewhat "anti-control". |
So what does he want to stop controlling?
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It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea. |
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Philosophos
Do it
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Posts: 9289
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Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: | | Quote: | | What I did was call Obama "pretty pro-market", and his healthcare plan somewhat "anti-control". |
So what does he want to stop controlling? |
Sigh... now you're just being a pedantic bitch.
I'm stating that his plan does not involve mandates for adults.
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Ivan_Ivanov
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | Sigh... now you're just being a pedantic bitch.
I'm stating that his plan does not involve mandates for adults. |
Ok, sorry about that.
But don't tell me you didn't see it coming that an an-cap would understand that term differently
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It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea. |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
Local time: 9:33 PM
Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: | Ok, sorry about that.
But don't tell me you didn't see it coming that an an-cap would understand that term differently |
If I were addressing an an-cap in my initial posts, I'd agree with you.
Now go rape Rothbard's corpse or something...
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Materialist99
Forum Plebian
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 171
Local time: 7:33 PM
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: | | Was Kennedy even that great? |
I remember the bomb drills at school, when Kennedy almost blew up the world in ithe Cuban missile crises, and the Pentagon Papers show how he messed things up with Viet Nam. He seemed like scum to me.
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Gettin' In Tune
Forum Master
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | I don't think I called his health care plan "pro-market" above. Nor do I think that health care problems should be solved completely by market forces.
But I don't believe socialized medicine is the answer either. |
I am going to practice some civility here, and just give you a BIG FAT FUCKING ?
| Quote: | | What I did was call Obama "pretty pro-market", |
Good, most liberals should respect their historical origins. Unfortunately, a few understand it. |
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Why does Obama = JFK? Because they both represent "change". Both shepherds appeal to the sheep that they are going to offer them a greenier pasture. In reality, people make their own beds, not the president. |
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Hugga_Bear
Forum Plebian
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 292
Local time: 1:33 AM
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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JFK made some brilliant promises and had some nice dreams but was he really going to go through with them? I mean a lot of people have made some brilliant speeches and many more have made speeches which made people stir. But he was killed before we could see whether he would deliver..
That said at least he was consistent in what he did...
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