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Moloth
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Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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 Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | Quote: | | In terms of all wars known in history (LINK: http://www.historyofwar.org/periodframe.html) the "cause of war" has been determined by historians to include a variety of reasons, with religion playing a part in about 25% of all wars. |
wow. so if we imagine no religion, a quarter of all wars will be prevented (and countless lives saved).
sounds like a good deal to me! 
plus, all violence, strife and suffering do not rely on WARS to be perpetuated. Look at Saudi Arabia under Sharia law... women beaten to death for the crime of being raped, people drug through the street, limbs lopped off, etc. Even in Western civilization... Abortion clinic bombings, racism and slavery, families and lives destroyed because homosexuality is considered an 'abomination', the list of religion-justified horrors could stretch for miles.
Religion, and the backwards, hateful, bigoted and delusional propaganda it spreads, IS the reason for a vast majority of pain int his world. Instead of fighting and arguing over who's right, about something that can't be falsified ANYWAYS, they could be spending that time celebrating the finite and precious life that we have in this universe.
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I was just posting to sharpen my keyboard pecking skills. I didn't really expect evidence or facts to actually serve as such to people who claim to rely entirely upon evidence and facts. I totally understand that it doesn't work in furthering your agenda or fit in the box that keeps God out. Feel free to bronze your myth for the mantle. |
i dont really feel all that bad if you disagree with me or ignore what i write.
you are intellectually dishonest, willfully ignorant and delusional and proven yourself to be consistently on this topic.
the fact that you totally miss the point of rational statements comes to no shock to me.
you hypocritically switch between facts being valuable (only when they support your delusional presupposition) and utterly worthless (only when they do NOT support your delusional presupposition).
the fact that you 'don't get it' is really of no surprise or consequence.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
Local time: 8:19 PM
Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | Missionary wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | Quote: | | In terms of all wars known in history (LINK: http://www.historyofwar.org/periodframe.html) the "cause of war" has been determined by historians to include a variety of reasons, with religion playing a part in about 25% of all wars. |
wow. so if we imagine no religion, a quarter of all wars will be prevented (and countless lives saved).
sounds like a good deal to me!
plus, all violence, strife and suffering do not rely on WARS to be perpetuated. Look at Saudi Arabia under Sharia law... women beaten to death for the crime of being raped, people drug through the street, limbs lopped off, etc. Even in Western civilization... Abortion clinic bombings, racism and slavery, families and lives destroyed because homosexuality is considered an 'abomination', the list of religion-justified horrors could stretch for miles.
Religion, and the backwards, hateful, bigoted and delusional propaganda it spreads, IS the reason for a vast majority of pain int his world. Instead of fighting and arguing over who's right, about something that can't be falsified ANYWAYS, they could be spending that time celebrating the finite and precious life that we have in this universe.
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I was just posting to sharpen my keyboard pecking skills. I didn't really expect evidence or facts to actually serve as such to people who claim to rely entirely upon evidence and facts. I totally understand that it doesn't work in furthering your agenda or fit in the box that keeps God out. Feel free to bronze your myth for the mantle. |
i dont really feel all that bad if you disagree with me or ignore what i write.
you are intellectually dishonest, willfully ignorant and delusional and proven yourself to be consistently on this topic.
the fact that you totally miss the point of rational statements comes to no shock to me.
you hypocritically switch between facts being valuable (only when they support your delusional presupposition) and utterly worthless (only when they do NOT support your delusional presupposition).
the fact that you 'don't get it' is really of no surprise or consequence. |
the irony............ Missionary where did you get those stats? the Bible? no? come on dont be dishonest.....
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Newman
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Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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nahhh, you got it from Wiki, and other secular sites?
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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when did i even question his stats? i mentioned them EXPLICITLY. i'm even trusting them to be accurate!
both of you are looking for a disagreement that isn;t there! 
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Newman
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Posts: 2009
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Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | when did i even question his stats? i mentioned them EXPLICITLY. i'm even trusting them to be accurate!
both of you are looking for a disagreement that isn;t there! |
"i dont really feel all that bad if you disagree with me or ignore what i write.
you are intellectually dishonest, willfully ignorant and delusional and proven yourself to be consistently on this topic.
the fact that you totally miss the point of rational statements comes to no shock to me.
you hypocritically switch between facts being valuable (only when they support your delusional presupposition) and utterly worthless (only when they do NOT support your delusional presupposition).
the fact that you 'don't get it' is really of no surprise or consequence."
yep your right, I am sorry 
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Newman
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: |
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If your trusting them to be accurate, why dont you try saying "oh, I had no idea, I have been dishonest all along" ok ok, dishonest is a strong word....lets use your favorite "Ignorant"
not looking for disagreements, looking for honesty
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Moloth
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Newman, you don;t even know what Miss and I are talking about!
run along now and play with your invisible bums. 
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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and,,. just for those who might be confused:
25% = 1/4 = one quarter.
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Newman
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | Newman, you don;t even know what Miss and I are talking about!
run along now and play with your invisible bums. |
nah, your right, reading the whole thread would not give me an idea
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Newman
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | Newman, you don;t even know what Miss and I are talking about!
run along now and play with your invisible bums. |
"Perhaps, but if we were smart, couldn't we shed ourselves of religion, and short cut our way out of this dilemma. Religion is the cause of many of the horrible(evil?) things that men do. If we could eliminate religion, then we could collectively establish a new humanist morality, based on what is good for the survival of the species."
so assuming Atheism could eliminate religion, the world would be rid of "the pain it causes humanity"
so Missionary puts up some stats that clearly and honestly says, out of all the wars 25% are in some way related to religion, now this is not even going further to investigate the motive behind the men, but at any rate, lets leave it at 25 for arguments sake.
what about the other 75%? ahhh, its ok, since it doesnt have to do with religion, its ok
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Newman
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
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lets fix the world with that 25%, never mind the rest
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Moloth
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: |
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I'm just to hope that Miss comes back. He is, at least, worth talking to.
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Newman
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | I'm just to hope that Miss comes back. He is, at least, worth talking to. |
off course, ignore the obvious
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Missionary
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was replying to ,"Religion is the cause of many of the horrible(evil?) things that men do." which a version of the claim I've read around the net and sprinkled about in these very forums. The variations are, "most wars..", "all wars...", 'suffering, misery, fights, problems,..." and whatever blame one wants to shift is heaped upon 'religion' and usually Christianity.
Man's suffering, disease, crime, wars, conflicts, financial problems, bowel blockages and any other muck you can throw is not in fact caused by "...religion and especially Christianity" but is caused by a humanity corrupted by sin. The evidence is crime, courts, prisons, police, armies, wars, bombs. The existence of these entities were not brought about by faith in God but are symptomatic behaviors of those not walking with God.
Jesus did not espouse or imply crime, hate, bigotry, war, injury, fighting, insults, political anarchy, socialism, or any other humanistic program. Jesus message was simple: Love God and Love your neighbor. It gets no simpler and yet man rejects the simple.
EDIT: Oh, and the stats slay that myth dragon. |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
Local time: 8:19 PM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | I was replying to ,"Religion is the cause of many of the horrible(evil?) things that men do." which a version of the claim I've read around the net and sprinkled about in these very forums. The variations are, "most wars..", "all wars...", 'suffering, misery, fights, problems,..." and whatever blame one wants to shift is heaped upon 'religion' and usually Christianity.
Man's suffering, disease, crime, wars, conflicts, financial problems, bowel blockages and any other muck you can throw is not in fact caused by "...religion and especially Christianity" but is caused by a humanity corrupted by sin. The evidence is crime, courts, prisons, police, armies, wars, bombs. The existence of these entities were not brought about by faith in God but are symptomatic behaviors of those not walking with God.
Jesus did not espouse or imply crime, hate, bigotry, war, injury, fighting, insults, political anarchy, socialism, or any other humanistic program. Jesus message was simple: Love God and Love your neighbor. It gets no simpler and yet man rejects the simple. |
O RLY?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/sword.html
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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