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Hit_me_up024
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Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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 Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | Hit_me_up024 wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | Hit_me_up024 wrote: | | i hate art like that. you should stop posting it. abstract art is not art even a munky with down syndrome could paint that |
Your dogmatic ignorance is unbecoming. |
im ignorant because i dont like abstract art? i believe that you are the ignorant one |
Not this again...
I am not responding at all to you not liking abstract art. I object to your implication that no one can or should like or do it or enjoy it. |
i never said that no one should like it. i just said that a munky with down syndrome could do abstract art which was a shot at munky.
please dont ever take me too serious 
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kmisho
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Joined: 05 Dec 2005
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Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| munky99999 wrote: | | Quote: | | First of all, the question of whether I have the ability to duplicate someone else's work is not relevant. That you think this is relevant tells me a lot about why you are so wrong on this issue. |
Actually it does. This is true for virtually all things. I cannot value something which is very easy to replicate myself. For example you cannot sell snow or ice to eskimos. |
By this logic, we should be able to sell individual snowflakes at a high price because they are near impossible to duplicate.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Your dog could paint better in what way? Does he have a sense of color coordination? A techinique? No, your dog could not do better. |
What a blanket statement to which you hold no evidence to back up. |
Have a heart. I at least allowed that your dog might be equally capable.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | There is artistic, cultural, psychological and philsoophical merit in deliberately emulating the naive art of children, so I fail to see your point. |
yes the merit of masking the inadequacy of the artists lack of skill and capabilities. That's it. |
You assume lack of skill...
Who painted these?
Case closed.
| Quote: | | Boy do you ever hate anyone judging or criticizing art. You even personally attack. |
"I'm just really glad this Rothko is dead. That way I don't have to be bothered in ruining his life by siezing his assets... hell he only got acknowledgment because the military draft in WW2 and such eliminated all the good artists and left this horseshit talentless scammer. I'm really glad he commited suicide. Infact I think the government should track down where his money and assets went and seize them all. Fraud is a crime afterall."
This is not ciriticizing art. It's an infantile transparent amateurish polemic. I hope it gave you a big vermillion boner because that's all it was good for.
I do not have a problem with people judging art, but that's not what you're doing...and you know it.
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
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kmisho
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Hit_me_up024 wrote: |
i never said that no one should like it. i just said that a munky with down syndrome could do abstract art which was a shot at munky.
please dont ever take me too serious |
Down Syndrome, huh? I was leaning more toward Syphilis.
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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Hit_me_up024
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Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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Location: My parents basement.
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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nah a munky would have to get laid for that to happen and we all know thats not happening for munky! lol jk
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps I have a narrow definition of art, but I don't consider abstract art a form of art, especially pure abstract art. I can find something beautiful and aesthetically pleasing, but this does not make it art. Art needs to communicate and depict a degree of reality. Therefore, I don't think art is solely identified in the eye of the beholder. It should have some minimum standards, not just splashing colors around on a piece of canvas, like Jack the Dripper
This is not art, but a display of colors
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kmisho
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Perhaps I have a narrow definition of art, but I don't consider abstract art a form of art, especially pure abstract art. I can find something beautiful and aesthetically pleasing, but this does not make it art. Art needs to communicate and depict a degree of reality. Therefore, I don't think art is solely identified in the eye of the beholder. It should have some minimum standards, not just splashing colors around on a piece of canvas, like Jack the Dripper |
I understand that, which is why I mentioned "illusionary art" as a more accurate name for realism. Someone like Pollock thought that making illusions on canvas was inherently a lie.
And I see no difference between looking at a Pollock (or any abstraction) and listening to a wordless piece of music. Communication is possible despite the lack of realistic depiction. The only thing you need to acknowledge is that if you are not sensitive to the nuances of expression possible with "visual music" there are those who are. I'm very sensitive to it both by nature and training.
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23063
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Perhaps I have a narrow definition of art, but I don't consider abstract art a form of art, especially pure abstract art. I can find something beautiful and aesthetically pleasing, but this does not make it art. Art needs to communicate and depict a degree of reality. Therefore, I don't think art is solely identified in the eye of the beholder. It should have some minimum standards, not just splashing colors around on a piece of canvas, like Jack the Dripper |
I understand that, which is why I mentioned "illusionary art" as a more accurate name for realism. Someone like Pollock thought that making illusions on canvas was inherently a lie.
And I see no difference between looking at a Pollock (or any abstraction) and listening to a wordless piece of music. Communication is possible despite the lack of realistic depiction. The only thing you need to acknowledge is that if you are not sensitive to the nuances of expression possible with "visual music" there are those who are. I'm very sensitive to it both by nature and training. |
heh... i like that. "classical or instrumental music ain't music because it ain't got no words in it!!!" sounds like "abstract art ain't art because it ain't a picture of sumthin real!!"
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | I understand that, which is why I mentioned "illusionary art" as a more accurate name for realism. |
I like your use of the term "illusionary art". Plato would approve!
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: |
heh... i like that. "classical or instrumental music ain't music because it ain't got no words in it!!!" sounds like "abstract art ain't art because it ain't a picture of sumthin real!!" |
I take it more as X type music ain't music because it takes no ability or talent to produce it, ie. 95% of rap, whereas classical certainly takes a great deal of creativity and talent. Besides, the flow of the music of any number of genres with instrumental songs most certainly can tell a story, moods, emotions, etc. without any lyrics (recently picked up versions of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Expedition and Holst's The Planets for my iPod which both vividly describe physical things with music).
This:
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | |
is someone flinging various colors of paint at a piece of canvas. That people will then pay huge amounts of money for it is mind boggling.
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kmisho
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Perhaps I have a narrow definition of art, but I don't consider abstract art a form of art, especially pure abstract art. I can find something beautiful and aesthetically pleasing, but this does not make it art. Art needs to communicate and depict a degree of reality. Therefore, I don't think art is solely identified in the eye of the beholder. It should have some minimum standards, not just splashing colors around on a piece of canvas, like Jack the Dripper |
I understand that, which is why I mentioned "illusionary art" as a more accurate name for realism. Someone like Pollock thought that making illusions on canvas was inherently a lie.
And I see no difference between looking at a Pollock (or any abstraction) and listening to a wordless piece of music. Communication is possible despite the lack of realistic depiction. The only thing you need to acknowledge is that if you are not sensitive to the nuances of expression possible with "visual music" there are those who are. I'm very sensitive to it both by nature and training. |
heh... i like that. "classical or instrumental music ain't music because it ain't got no words in it!!!" sounds like "abstract art ain't art because it ain't a picture of sumthin real!!" |
Yeah. Or the flutes don't imitate bird sounds or things like that.
Some people complain that modern art is altogether too theoretical. There is some validity to this, another of the problems of modern art. I've gone to see shows where next to every work was a lengthy essay by the artist on what his work was about. My thought was, "If you're going to do that, just take down the art and publish a blog of all the fascinating stuff you think about."
But I don't think it takes a philosophy degree to make the leap from realism to abstraction as "visual music". If it doesn't sing to you, fine. To trash it because of this is like a tone-deaf person saying that all music is crap.
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
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Moloth
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Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | | Moloth wrote: |
heh... i like that. "classical or instrumental music ain't music because it ain't got no words in it!!!" sounds like "abstract art ain't art because it ain't a picture of sumthin real!!" |
I take it more as X type music ain't music because it takes no ability or talent to produce it, ie. 95% of rap, whereas classical certainly takes a great deal of creativity and talent. Besides, the flow of the music of any number of genres with instrumental songs most certainly can tell a story, moods, emotions, etc. without any lyrics (recently picked up versions of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Expedition and Holst's The Planets for my iPod which both vividly describe physical things with music).
This:
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | |
is someone flinging various colors of paint at a piece of canvas. That people will then pay huge amounts of money for it is mind boggling. |
personally, i agree. I FULLY appreciate the difference between what i LIKE and what takes an amount of SKILL. If i want a particular splash of color or colors, i'll paint it myself or get a 3 year old to finger paint it. in my opinion, true abstract, such as that above, doesn't really deserve my cash, ya know? but, on the other hand, a perfectly and expertly painted owl of fruit does not either.... i appreciate the amazing skill it takes to recreate a physical object like that... but.. ugh... why would you want a representation of a bowl of fruit? O_o
personally, i like two different, just-off-center forms of art on that spectrum: fantastic things represented realistically, and mundane things represented fantastically. both of those give room, in my opinion, to express imagination, talent AND skill.
an example of the former:
and example of the latter:
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total
Last edited by Moloth on Mon May 05, 2008 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Also... Holst 'The Planets' = awesome.
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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kmisho
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| BarkAtTheMoon wrote: |
I take it more as X type music ain't music because it takes no ability or talent to produce it |
Here's where I think you are just wrong. Do you know enough about it to even say?
| Quote: | ie. 95% of rap, whereas classical certainly takes a great deal of creativity and talent. Besides, the flow of the music of any number of genres with instrumental songs most certainly can tell a story, moods, emotions, etc. without any lyrics (recently picked up versions of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Expedition and Holst's The Planets for my iPod which both vividly describe physical things with music).
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But the moods and emotions you attach to certain aural combinations is largely cultural. You've learned it.
I for one consider the amateur esthetic central to all pop music since the birth of rock. The whole idea is that anybody can do it.
This also gets back into the issue of exactly how much talent and skill matter in art, something which we'd probably also disagree about.
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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kmisho
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Posts: 4632
Local time: 12:21 AM
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | That people will then pay huge amounts of money for it is mind boggling. |
Money is another problem in the art world.
The superrich buy things that people told them was great and want nothing more from it than a rise in dollar value above what they paid for it.
(Not always true, but usually)
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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kmisho
Stochastic
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Posts: 4632
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Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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There is one fastinating artist that manages to combine photo-realism, abstraction and pop-art like patterning into a single entity. Chuck Close. Up close you see clashing circles of color inserted into regular squares and rectangles. From a distance it looks like a photo. It gives the amazing impression of being both haphazard and painstaking:
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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