Science and Religion, First Cause

exChristian · Visitor Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 6 Local time: 12:27 PM

Hi this is my first post, and I wanted to make as controversial as possible so here is it. Arguments for the first cause.
And yes from both Science and Religious point of view. Btw, I am not really ex-Christian as name might suggest.
This something I posted earlier on my blog and I hope you like it.

There's a actually a joke for prove for God's existence

ARGUMENT FROM EVERYTHING
(1) God is everything.
(2) You can’t doubt everything – am I right?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

But "Am I right?". Science happily says "No". With Science you must doubt anything and everything. That is only way people gain new knowledge and understanding. If we did not question, we would think Earth was flat, have not found clues for it's roundish shape. I am going to talk about Religion Vs Science, specifically Science's view of how universe began and Religion's view of how the world began.

There are many views on how this universe started. Some even believe it never had a beginning just existed forever (See "Plasma cosmology" also "Oscillatory universe"), some like to believe God made this world (See "Religion"), others by accident out of almost nothing (See "Science") and most just do not care (See "Humans").

So I divided the sections into Science Vs Religion, Creation Vs Science. Yes who saw that coming.

Let's just start with what Science is.
Science is a system where we gather evidence from what we see, feel, hear etc etc. and also what we can deduce from it. Science never ever ever says it is 100% correct even though it seems pretty damn obvious. That's the beauty of science, considers all possibilities. Some people think it's based on logic and common sense but if we considered common sense as science, we would have thought Earth was flat for extra 100 years. Science removes or changes theories when they are wrong, and this does happen a lot due to having so many theories within the same subject (e.g. Quantum Physics and theory of relativity). Science never says it's right, just saying this is supported by this and that (most plausible). Let's say creation is how the universe really began. Science will at some point make a "theory of Creation" if Creation is right. So people who says, "oh you believe in Creation you are stupid" are just brainless dumb asses who oppose what Science is.

ARGUMENT FROM NEGATIVE NUMBERS
(1) Humans used to think that negative numbers did not exist.
(2) Mathematicians tell us that they do exist.
(3) God is like negative numbers.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

Religion is a belief system who hardly corrects itself. Religion, in my opinion has good parts and horrible parts. Religion unlike Science does not like correcting itself. Recently there is some talk about the homosexual Christians who are not accepted in the Catholic community. They cannot change that because it seems like changing the whole religion.
In Hinduism, people believe Earth is flat and supported by 4 elephants and a giant turtle. Using our science now, we can show them, they are wrong right? That Hinduism is wrong?
The answer is "No". From our point of view THAT part of Hinduism is wrong but not the whole thing. If we talk about the flaw within a system, I cannot stop talking about how many theories within Science was wrong. Religion does not want to correct itself this is the only problem. Going back to Hinduism, they believe a life should have goals. Is that wrong? They also believe in Karma, like a lot of people (personally I do not believe in Karma, if I did I am pretty sure I should have been killed 5 times and over). Just to add, according to Christianity the bible indicates world started 6000 years ago (in terms of numbers within bible, symbolism or not). So God made everything look old and made lights between Earth and the stars for those stars died out billions of years ago. If those numbers are not symbolisms it's doesn't seem very plausible. However, if that is wrong it does not mean the whole bible is wrong.

Science and Religion Concept
Let's say I grabbed an invisible ball, you cannot see feel or touch it but I can throw it anywhere, even in another dimension. DO you believe in that ball? The thing is either you do or you don't. Science cannot ever at any point "Prove" that the ball was not there. Religion is saying the ball is there without looking at it. Feeling it well that's debatable (See Documentary: God on the brain). Religion uses a lot of logic. It does not seem it like it does but it does. I will show you later on.
All parts within religion cannot be wrong due to one false part, let's say God or Jesus did not exist, still does not mean we should not love one another (and do not forget "thou shall not murder").

So finally we get to Creation Vs Science. This means in terms of "First Cause".

First I will take Creation's point of view.
Matter: Energy, something we can see, feel and other crap. To generalise something which is detectable. You cannot have infinite of matter as it has beginning (supported by Big Bang theory, universe is expanding or general property of matter). Because of universe is expanding it must have a start point of matter. General property of matter is matter is energy, it must come from something.
So how did the first matter come about? It did not come out of nothing that's for sure. There had to be something which has no beginning i.e. not bound by space nor time. So something which time is not a factor. Let's call this thing or person "Godfrey". So Godfrey is a person cannot be measured in size (universe standard size) not bound by space and always existed so not bound by time. Even a scientist will tell you that something does not have to exists within time. "Time is just another dimension". Using this logic there has to be something not made of matter, so what we cannot see, hear nor detect, something infinite (powerful) which made matter. And by chance it says on the bible written really really really long time ago, God is infinite and not bound by time. Wow that is a good logic. But here is the assumption, you are assuming that there is such thing as "Godfrey" and not looking at any other possibilities.

Now for Science's view. Let's talk about inflation theory. This is a theory I have grown up to believe and it's going to be completely useless soon but I'll explain it anyway. It's quite simple, world was unpredictable (assumption here as well) before matter existed. Due to that unpredictability, energy has divided into positive energy and negative energy (trust me this looks plausible). That's how matter was formed. So if we add up all the energy in the universe we will have 0 energy. Although this is a good theory, recently a rivalry theory called "String Theory" have overtaken in terms of popularity and plausibility. It's pretty much 2 dimension intersection making one dimension to make a string energy (yes quantum physics, and the fault within this theory is mathematic errors produced when dimensions collide). It has sub-theories, "Oscillatory universe" which means never ending universe where is starts and ends in a loop and "Multi-verse" which means infinite amount of universe. Quite interesting, everyone should read more about it.

During my school days science student made fun of religious people cause inflation theory/Cosmic inflation made sense in terms of science. But now that could be wrong too. You never know with Science, that's why I love it. Science corrects itself and builds on knowledge. Maybe one day there will be "Creation theory" (I hope to Godfrey that never happens, probably means Scientist ran out of ideas).

So to summaries, Creation or Accident we should debate about it but not say this is right this is wrong. As a science freak, I believe everyone on Earth could be wrong. Remember even in science before Nicolaus Copernicus, we did not even consider Earth revolving around the sun and even before that we thought earth was FLAT! Some people believe our science is so advanced now. However it's far from it, we got so many things to learn and gain. It's our nature to question and we should ask questions. I mean we don't even know how the world began yet, we have weak ass theories what actually makes a gravity, a gravity and we only made fusion reactor recently (define: recently in science). We are only at the beginning stage of Science. Saying Science is superior than Religion is just stupidity and utter non-sense (calm down, well at least for now, just until we find out how universe really began).

Thank you for reading~~
P.S. Everyone should about teachings from different religion too. Buddhism and Hinduism are great read, very philosophical. I will be posting soon about my view on universe.

kmisho · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject:

exChristian · Visitor Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 6 Local time: 12:27 PM

kmisho · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject:

Hit_me_up024 · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

science doesnt "doubt" anything they begin experiments with no opinion of how it will end.

They are simply providing answer. and science never says its 100% correct? What about scientific facts? mathematical facts? Its a "fact" it can be "proven" Unlike your god. If "god" is everything we should be able to prove it.

Lets put it this way.......

Lets say you have a box, and as an experiment you are told their is a pearl in the box.

Now.....No matter how big or small the box is you should be able to eventually find the pearl correct.

In this since your god is the pearl and this earth our box.
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Props to Enemy_of_Reality

exChristian · Visitor Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 6 Local time: 12:27 PM

Hit_me_up024 · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject:

you just said you were not an ex-christian its about your blog and i could really give a shit less about your blog (no offense).

but welcome and are you atheist?
_________________
be the pancake

Props to Enemy_of_Reality

pr126 · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:06 am Post subject:

This now the new accepted trend.
Conflating religion with science. Trying to prove the unprovable with science. Can it be done?

I have noticed that Christianity (and Islam, altough more clumsily) trying to use science to justify their superstition, to legitimise their deity any which way they can.
Knowing that science cannot be surpressed any longer, so they are taking a ride on the back of science to fool believers that the religion can in fact be proven with science.

But, all religion has is faith. That is all it ever needs.
I think science is science, religion is religion. Best leave it at that.

A universal god is a logical impossibility. The multitude of conflicting religious dogmas are evidence to this.
The very fact that a religion [insert your local deity here] has to be inculcated is evidence to that.

But, lets see where this thread is taking us.
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"Orwell was a visionary. He just got the date wrong."

exChristian · Visitor Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 6 Local time: 12:27 PM

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