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Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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 Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend?
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles
"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius
"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne |
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ShaSha
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
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Local time: 8:44 AM
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
It would take a conversation of getting to know you and what you believe and then I would direct you according to information that I would get from you. It's not a one minute or one hour revelation. It could take years. It took me years. But I enjoyed the journey of discovery so it was all fun. |
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 6537
Local time: 3:44 PM
Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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This question reminds me of the Prince/Joan Ossbourne song "what if god was one of us", or rather the irony of the song's lyrics. This world features billion's of 'one-of-usses'... if only Prince could become at peace with none of them being God. Now there's an "what if..." for the little guy from Indianapolis to ponder.
If you're that desperate for contact with a god, new friends is what I'd reccomend.
_________________
~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code. |
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ShaSha
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
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Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Jutter wrote: | This question reminds me of the Prince/Joan Ossbourne song "what if god was one of us", or rather the irony of the song's lyrics. This world features billion's of 'one-of-usses'... if only Prince could become at peace with none of them being God. Now there's an "what if..." for the little guy from Indianapolis to ponder.
If you're that desperate for contact with a god, new friends is what I'd reccomend. |
Not to nitpik but Prince is from Minneapolis. They do sound alike at the end though so it is understandable. |
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 8947
Local time: 11:44 PM
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| ShaSha wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
It would take a conversation of getting to know you and what you believe and then I would direct you according to information that I would get from you. It's not a one minute or one hour revelation. It could take years. It took me years. But I enjoyed the journey of discovery so it was all fun. |
Wow...back stage passes.
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Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar.... |
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romans120
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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Location: mid-west
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor
_________________
The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 8947
Local time: 11:44 PM
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| romans120 wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor |
So you have to have blind faith in order to "know" he is there.
Good deal.....
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Join http://www.sefora.org/
Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar.... |
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Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2224
Local time: 9:44 AM
Location: Lawnside, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| romans120 wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor |
I don't tend to like this "escape clause" of chalking up God not communicating with certain people to there being something wrong with the person and their lack of faith. You guys sure are quick blame the person for not "believing enough". Are you saying that as a kid when I prayed that I didn't believe hard enough or something? How does one go about having enough faith as the passage suggests?
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles
"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius
"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne |
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Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2224
Local time: 9:44 AM
Location: Lawnside, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| ShaSha wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
It would take a conversation of getting to know you and what you believe and then I would direct you according to information that I would get from you. It's not a one minute or one hour revelation. It could take years. It took me years. But I enjoyed the journey of discovery so it was all fun. |
Did you read my blog post?
I basically said that I don't believe much of anything. I didn't grow up with religion although I prayed as a kid every once in a while for some sort of sign.....never got any. I don't reject god as a possibility....just an improbability. I'm open minded only because I realize I can't possibly know much for an absolute fact, even the idea of god existing.
Is that enough information?
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles
"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius
"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne |
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romans120
Moderator
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 1816
Local time: 9:44 AM
Location: mid-west
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Zocrates wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor |
I don't tend to like this "escape clause" of chalking up God not communicating with certain people to there being something wrong with the person and their lack of faith. You guys sure are quick blame the person for not "believing enough". Are you saying that as a kid when I prayed that I didn't believe hard enough or something? How does one go about having enough faith as the passage suggests? |
Thats because faith is not sourced in some internal merit. Its author is God and God alone. If you really want to experience it read romans 10 and believe it. Especially verse 17
_________________
The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 8947
Local time: 11:44 PM
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Romans 10
10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar.... |
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baddogma
antitheist
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Funny though Romans, it has the opposite affect on me. The more I read the bible the more I realize it is bullshit.
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Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar.... |
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
Local time: 9:44 AM
Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Zocrates wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor |
I don't tend to like this "escape clause" of chalking up God not communicating with certain people to there being something wrong with the person and their lack of faith. You guys sure are quick blame the person for not "believing enough". Are you saying that as a kid when I prayed that I didn't believe hard enough or something? How does one go about having enough faith as the passage suggests? |
well, here are my .02, I have seen many times and spoke to many people regarding their faith when they were little, its hard to exactly put a finger on why kids are frustrated with the prayer issue, 2 things always come to mind:
1. Instant gratification - as you know as a kid this is our primary objective on things, we need, and we need it now
2. as a kid, what are we asking for? I can tell you what I asked for, and probably a 100 reasons why I did not get them, lol
I am not so sure its a faith factor, kids believe with all their hearts
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JBCuzISaidSo
Jaded Humanist
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1742
Local time: 9:44 AM
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Skeptics Annotated: Romans 10
| Quote: | "Their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
Paul says that everyone, even in his day, had the gospel preached to them. Even the Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders? In any case, if Paul is right about that, then Jesus is a false prophet, since he said he would return before the gospel was preached to everyone. (Mt. 10:23)
Augustine reasoned from this verse that there could be no antipodes (humans that lived in the southern hemisphere) since they could not have had the gospel preached to them. (Andrew Dickson White, History of the Warfare of Science with Theology, Chapter 2: Geography ) |
So, there couldn't possibly be anybody to doubt, therefore Romans 10:17.....just is even to those that didn't exist (though, they did).
??
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Easy on the zeal Churchos… I've got something to say.
Don't you get it? It's all Christianity, people!
The little stupid differences are nothing next to the big stupid similarities!
~Bart Simpson |
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 8947
Local time: 11:44 PM
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Newman wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor |
I don't tend to like this "escape clause" of chalking up God not communicating with certain people to there being something wrong with the person and their lack of faith. You guys sure are quick blame the person for not "believing enough". Are you saying that as a kid when I prayed that I didn't believe hard enough or something? How does one go about having enough faith as the passage suggests? |
well, here are my .02, I have seen many times and spoke to many people regarding their faith when they were little, its hard to exactly put a finger on why kids are frustrated with the prayer issue, 2 things always come to mind:
1. Instant gratification - as you know as a kid this is our primary objective on things, we need, and we need it now
2. as a kid, what are we asking for? I can tell you what I asked for, and probably a 100 reasons why I did not get them, lol
I am not so sure its a faith factor, kids believe with all their hearts |
I didn't believe in god....not even a little bit.
_________________
Join http://www.sefora.org/
Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar.... |
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