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baddogma
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 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: New Free will argument? |
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I think I have an argument that I have not heard on the forum for free will. When I pull this one on the theists I know, they do not respond. I would like to see it batted around on the forum to see how well it works.
Yesterday the JWs came to my door again. They claimed we have free will. I said No we don’t and proceeded to argue the ol “An all powerful, all knowing being created us and knew what would happen before we were born yada yada to which he replied. “You didn’t have to open your door today, you chose to”. YEAH but your god supposedly KNEW I would do that before blah blah fuck me runnin.
Well, the way I see it is no one asked me to exist. My free will was violated be my being here.
The Christian god created us AGAIANST our free will FORCING us to exist for all eternity in either heaven or hell according to the most popular sects. No option of not existing at all.
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Shiranu
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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I think if they are too idiotic to understand "No free will due to already knowing", they probabbly will find some way to weezle out of "free will violated from conception". I know I use to debate about that when I was still a Christian, and its one of the biggest reasons I left. No one else could seem to understand my logic, yet its really rather basic.
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baddogma
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | | I think if they are too idiotic to understand "No free will due to already knowing", they probabbly will find some way to weezle out of "free will violated from conception". I know I use to debate about that when I was still a Christian, and its one of the biggest reasons I left. No one else could seem to understand my logic, yet its really rather basic. |
It's ALL rather basic. Cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization allow people to believe the stupidest bullshit out of emotions.
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Join http://www.sefora.org/
Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar....
smartmarzipan: "Debating fundies is like playing chess with pigeons. They knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and then fly back to the roost to declare victory." |
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BarkAtTheMoon
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: Re: New Free will argument? |
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| baddogma wrote: |
Well, the way I see it is no one asked me to exist. My free will was violated be my being here.
The Christian god created us AGAIANST our free will FORCING us to exist for all eternity in either heaven or hell according to the most popular sects. No option of not existing at all. |
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
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notsaved
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Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 222
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: New Free will argument? |
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| baddogma wrote: | I think I have an argument that I have not heard on the forum for free will. When I pull this one on the theists I know, they do not respond. I would like to see it batted around on the forum to see how well it works.
Yesterday the JWs came to my door again. They claimed we have free will. I said No we don’t and proceeded to argue the ol “An all powerful, all knowing being created us and knew what would happen before we were born yada yada to which he replied. “You didn’t have to open your door today, you chose to”. YEAH but your god supposedly KNEW I would do that before blah blah fuck me runnin.
Well, the way I see it is no one asked me to exist. My free will was violated be my being here.
The Christian god created us AGAIANST our free will FORCING us to exist for all eternity in either heaven or hell according to the most popular sects. No option of not existing at all. |
The next time they come to your door claiming free will is fact, just ask them if they can run a one minute mile. So much for free will eh ? |
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Philosophos
Do it
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Creating one against one's will is a contradictory concept. It assumes that one could have a will before one existed.
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: New Free will argument? |
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| baddogma wrote: | I think I have an argument that I have not heard on the forum for free will. When I pull this one on the theists I know, they do not respond. I would like to see it batted around on the forum to see how well it works.
Yesterday the JWs came to my door again. They claimed we have free will. I said No we don’t and proceeded to argue the ol “An all powerful, all knowing being created us and knew what would happen before we were born yada yada to which he replied. “You didn’t have to open your door today, you chose to”. YEAH but your god supposedly KNEW I would do that before blah blah fuck me runnin.
Well, the way I see it is no one asked me to exist. My free will was violated be my being here.
The Christian god created us AGAIANST our free will FORCING us to exist for all eternity in either heaven or hell according to the most popular sects. No option of not existing at all. |
first...what the.....is a JW?
second.....how do you know we had no choice to be born?... I mean taking into consideration He exist, how do you know what process are in place for us to be born?
again as your question figures God to exist...
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
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Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: New Free will argument? |
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| notsaved wrote: | | baddogma wrote: | I think I have an argument that I have not heard on the forum for free will. When I pull this one on the theists I know, they do not respond. I would like to see it batted around on the forum to see how well it works.
Yesterday the JWs came to my door again. They claimed we have free will. I said No we don’t and proceeded to argue the ol “An all powerful, all knowing being created us and knew what would happen before we were born yada yada to which he replied. “You didn’t have to open your door today, you chose to”. YEAH but your god supposedly KNEW I would do that before blah blah fuck me runnin.
Well, the way I see it is no one asked me to exist. My free will was violated be my being here.
The Christian god created us AGAIANST our free will FORCING us to exist for all eternity in either heaven or hell according to the most popular sects. No option of not existing at all. |
The next time they come to your door claiming free will is fact, just ask them if they can run a one minute mile. So much for free will eh ? |
? free will in no way shape or forms even implicates that you can be a super human...dont really follow your analogy
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Philosophos
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: New Free will argument? |
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| Newman wrote: |
first...what the.....is a JW? |
Jehovah's Witness.
| Quote: | | again as your question figures God to exist... |
This is a very common form of argument called reductio ad absurdum. One assumes a premise to show at most that it leads to a contradiction, or more informally, that it leads to an "absurdity".
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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baddogma
antitheist
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Local time: 6:49 PM
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: New Free will argument? |
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| Newman wrote: | | baddogma wrote: | I think I have an argument that I have not heard on the forum for free will. When I pull this one on the theists I know, they do not respond. I would like to see it batted around on the forum to see how well it works.
Yesterday the JWs came to my door again. They claimed we have free will. I said No we don’t and proceeded to argue the ol “An all powerful, all knowing being created us and knew what would happen before we were born yada yada to which he replied. “You didn’t have to open your door today, you chose to”. YEAH but your god supposedly KNEW I would do that before blah blah fuck me runnin.
Well, the way I see it is no one asked me to exist. My free will was violated be my being here.
The Christian god created us AGAIANST our free will FORCING us to exist for all eternity in either heaven or hell according to the most popular sects. No option of not existing at all. |
first...what the.....is a JW?
second.....how do you know we had no choice to be born?... I mean taking into consideration He exist, how do you know what process are in place for us to be born?
again as your question figures God to exist... |
Burdon of proof is on you. I'm not making a positive claim. JWs are Jehova's Witnesses.
_________________
Join http://www.sefora.org/
Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar....
smartmarzipan: "Debating fundies is like playing chess with pigeons. They knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and then fly back to the roost to declare victory." |
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kmisho
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Creating one against one's will is a contradictory concept. It assumes that one could have a will before one existed. |
God could have asked my soul if it wanted to be strapped to a suffering meat-puppet and let me think it over...
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Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
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Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: New Free will argument? |
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| baddogma wrote: | | Newman wrote: | | baddogma wrote: | I think I have an argument that I have not heard on the forum for free will. When I pull this one on the theists I know, they do not respond. I would like to see it batted around on the forum to see how well it works.
Yesterday the JWs came to my door again. They claimed we have free will. I said No we don’t and proceeded to argue the ol “An all powerful, all knowing being created us and knew what would happen before we were born yada yada to which he replied. “You didn’t have to open your door today, you chose to”. YEAH but your god supposedly KNEW I would do that before blah blah fuck me runnin.
Well, the way I see it is no one asked me to exist. My free will was violated be my being here.
The Christian god created us AGAIANST our free will FORCING us to exist for all eternity in either heaven or hell according to the most popular sects. No option of not existing at all. |
first...what the.....is a JW?
second.....how do you know we had no choice to be born?... I mean taking into consideration He exist, how do you know what process are in place for us to be born?
again as your question figures God to exist... |
Burdon of proof is on you. I'm not making a positive claim. JWs are Jehova's Witnesses. |
JW's aaaahhh ok, got it
well its a catch 22, as you well know...you ask a question that even if GOD exist, and was proven we would not know the process of election for being born.
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
Local time: 4:49 AM
Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: New Free will argument? |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Newman wrote: |
first...what the.....is a JW? |
Jehovah's Witness.
| Quote: | | again as your question figures God to exist... |
This is a very common form of argument called reductio ad absurdum. One assumes a premise to show at most that it leads to a contradiction, or more informally, that it leads to an "absurdity". |
so I guess we are all wasting our time then  I understand, you asking a question and your waiting for the answer to dissect it, and you hold a bias stance prior to the answer, really no point in answering.
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Newman
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | Creating one against one's will is a contradictory concept. It assumes that one could have a will before one existed. |
God could have asked my soul if it wanted to be strapped to a suffering meat-puppet and let me think it over... |
again, if we dont know the process, how can you assume that?
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baddogma
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Newman wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | Creating one against one's will is a contradictory concept. It assumes that one could have a will before one existed. |
God could have asked my soul if it wanted to be strapped to a suffering meat-puppet and let me think it over... |
again, if we dont know the process, how can you assume that? |
There is no fucking process!!!
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Join http://www.sefora.org/
Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar....
smartmarzipan: "Debating fundies is like playing chess with pigeons. They knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and then fly back to the roost to declare victory." |
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