| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 5:38 PM
Location: USA
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
  |
|
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | You, like most people, confuse economic "power" with political "power". One is the use of trade; the other is the use of the weapon. I'll let you figure out which is which. |
| gnosis wrote: | | I think you are making the mistake of believing there is a difference. |
There is a difference, as I pointed out.
| gnosis wrote: | | Economic power is political power, at least under the current system. |
And the current system isn't "unregulated capitalism". So I'm at a loss as to what your objection could possibly be.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
|
gnosis
Forum Master
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 2373
Local time: 6:38 PM
Location: California
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | You, like most people, confuse economic "power" with political "power". One is the use of trade; the other is the use of the weapon. I'll let you figure out which is which. |
What about paying someone else to pick up the weapon and kill? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 5:38 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | You, like most people, confuse economic "power" with political "power". One is the use of trade; the other is the use of the weapon. I'll let you figure out which is which. |
| gnosis wrote: | | What about paying someone else to pick up the weapon and kill? |
Like the US military? Political power.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gnosis
Forum Master
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 2373
Local time: 6:38 PM
Location: California
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
Like the US military? Political power. |
Also economic, is it not? Still money paid, whether by a private or public party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 5:38 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Like the US military? Political power. |
| gnosis wrote: | | Also economic, is it not? |
Nope.
| gnosis wrote: | | Still money paid, whether by a private or public party. |
And a person could pay for oceanfront property in Colorado, but that doesn't mean the person will get it.
You have to remember something: anyone who pays another to initiate force against a 3rd party is a criminal. And most people simply don't do that in the first place--not out of fear of the government, but out of a general respect for each other (which in no way is fostered by a government, and in fact tends to be countered by a government).
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gnosis
Forum Master
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 2373
Local time: 6:38 PM
Location: California
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
You have to remember something: anyone who pays another to initiate force against a 3rd party is a criminal. And most people simply don't do that in the first place--not out of fear of the government, but out of a general respect for each other (which in no way is fostered by a government, and in fact tends to be countered by a government). |
Yet there are criminals, and sometimes they can amass large amounts of money and pay for very large militias. Look at George W. Bush.  I suppose that's just reinforcing your point of political power though.
If a single criminal is able to amass enough wealth to rival the power of any police force under a private system, you have a pretty big problem. How do you think it would be possible to prevent such a thing from happening without some form of collective or democratic intervention under a more "anarcho-capitalistic" system? Am I mistaken in thinking that you are debating from the anarcho-capitalistic point of view?
P.S.,
A more accurate description of the concept of "libertarian socialism" is actually "anarcho-syndicalism". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 5:38 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | You have to remember something: anyone who pays another to initiate force against a 3rd party is a criminal. And most people simply don't do that in the first place--not out of fear of the government, but out of a general respect for each other (which in no way is fostered by a government, and in fact tends to be countered by a government). |
| gnosis wrote: | | Yet there are criminals, and sometimes they can amass large amounts of money and pay for very large militias. Look at George W. Bush. I suppose that's just reinforcing your point of political power though. |
It does, and the militias aren't "private" in the sense of "only for this person".
| gnosis wrote: | | If a single criminal is able to amass enough wealth to rival the power of any police force under a private system, you have a pretty big problem. |
No, for
1. How would that happen in the first place.
2. There's no reason to assume that the police would not co-operate and take him out.
| gnosis wrote: | | How do you think it would be possible to prevent such a thing from happening without some form of collective or democratic intervention under a more "anarcho-capitalistic" system? |
It's possible now. However, I don't see that it would be probable in an ancap society.
| gnosis wrote: | P.S.,
A more accurate description of the concept of "libertarian socialism" is actually "anarcho-syndicalism". |
Which is yet another load of garbage.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gnosis
Forum Master
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 2373
Local time: 6:38 PM
Location: California
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | gnosis wrote: |
A more accurate description of the concept of "libertarian socialism" is actually "anarcho-syndicalism". |
Which is yet another load of garbage. |
"Another load of garbage" in that you don't think it "exists", or that you disagree with its concepts, or both?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gettin' In Tune
Forum Master
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 2545
Local time: 6:38 PM
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
AS is a load of shit based off of socialistic ideology. My first example.
| Quote: | | Workers’ solidarity means that anarcho-syndicalists believe all workers, no matter what their gender or ethnic group, are in a similar situation in regard to their bosses (class consciousness) |
Do they not recognize the economic rent created by the entrepreneur?
How the fuck are you going to abolish the wage system? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gnosis
Forum Master
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 2373
Local time: 6:38 PM
Location: California
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
How the fuck are you going to abolish the wage system? |
"Not all seek to abolish wages per se. Ralph Chaplin states that "the ultimate aim of the General Strike as regards wages is to give to each producer the full product of his labor. The demand for better wages becomes revolutionary only when it is coupled with the demand that the exploitation of labor must cease."
| Quote: |
Do they not recognize the economic rent created by the entrepreneur? |
Please elaborate, if you will. What is "economic rent"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 5:38 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gnosis wrote: | | A more accurate description of the concept of "libertarian socialism" is actually "anarcho-syndicalism". |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Which is yet another load of garbage. |
| gnosis wrote: | | "Another load of garbage" in that you don't think it "exists", or that you disagree with its concepts, or both? |
Mostly that I disagree with the concepts.
http://www.mises.org/humanaction/chap33sec4.asp
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gettin' In Tune
Forum Master
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 2545
Local time: 6:38 PM
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gnosis wrote: | | Please elaborate, if you will. What is "economic rent"? |
A person starts their own business. Why do they take on this risk instead of safely working for someone else? Economic rent.
Google the term if my explanation is not clear. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Live Video and Chat Room
Freethought Videos
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
