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helloween_metal
Atheist Crusader
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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hey RussianAtheistMetalHead, i am IndianAtheistMetalHead . . . lolz. just stay away from these peoples, you dont know what they can do.
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Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish |
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Godless Red Scum
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | Godless Red Scum wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | just keep in mind.. people like him are considered nuts.
as time goes on, religiosity decreases.. and one day, people will be looked at strangely when they say that they believe in an invisible man who lives in the sky. |
I'd dispute the last statement. Though the Marxist in me believes in an inexorable march towards a rational society, the cynic in me thinks that superstition in general and religion in particular satisfies a psychological need for many people that no amount of social engineering, psychological treatment, or modern medicine can ever compete with. It may not be that way forever, but I don't see it changing for a very long time and it may never change. Religiosity may decrease, but I think the basic belief in a supernatural entity and an afterlife may never go away. |
you might be right, but i think even that basic belief can be mitigated. once we, as a species, no longer need to rely on the supernatural in order to explain the universe OR comfort our emotions, we might be able to do away with them.
huge nerd moment... but all i can keep thinking of is Star Trek.. lol. |
Surpised you're a defender of capitalism then. As I recall, in Star Trek, Earth had essentially become a socialist utopia-- no money, no poverty, etc. Course I'm not a huge Trekkie (though I did enjoy some of the Star Trek series and movies), so maybe I'm wrong on that. |
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Philosophos
Do it
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I'm no Trekkie, but have seen a lot of it and am somewhat of a fan, and it always struck me as socialistic as well.
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Moloth
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Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: |
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When you have the ability to create anything you want, out of thin air... what use is there for money?
Money is a not a perfect institution.. its just the best we have right now. at a later date, i think humanity will evolve (socially, technologically and/or administratively) past the need for monetary compensation.
I AM a defender of capitalism... but only because MONEY is the standard by which we gauge ones worth in this era of human experience.
at a later time (such as in Star Trek), Star Fleet operates almost purely on self-gratification, scientific endeavor and personal self-improvement. People don't 'go to work' because they HAVE to.. they do it because they CHOOSE to, because they find it fulfilling.
also... keep in mind this is ONLY Star Fleet... i imagine that there ARE plenty of 'bums' in the Federation that don't 'work' in the traditional sense. they're dilettantes, lucky enough to be born into a civilization that 1) can support their every need and 2) don't pressure them to 'work' in the sense we think of today.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Godless Red Scum
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | When you have the ability to create anything you want, out of thin air... what use is there for money?
Money is a not a perfect institution.. its just the best we have right now. at a later date, i think humanity will evolve (socially, technologically and/or administratively) past the need for monetary compensation.
I AM a defender of capitalism... but only because MONEY is the standard by which we gauge ones worth in this era of human experience.
at a later time (such as in Star Trek), Star Fleet operates almost purely on self-gratification, scientific endeavor and personal self-improvement. People don't 'go to work' because they HAVE to.. they do it because they CHOOSE to, because they find it fulfilling.
also... keep in mind this is ONLY Star Fleet... i imagine that there ARE plenty of 'bums' in the Federation that don't 'work' in the traditional sense. they're dilettantes, lucky enough to be born into a civilization that 1) can support their every need and 2) don't pressure them to 'work' in the sense we think of today. |
There are many socialists out there who believe socialism will only be possible when further technological and social developments create objective historical conditions conducive to it. |
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Sal1981
Do you hear me now?
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I never understood the economy in the Star Trek universe. Every time the issue of currency or economic thought came up in an episode - I always got a feeling that they basically dodged the question and just focused, unsurprisingly, on the story instead.
But I do remember a scene from Star Trek: Voyager where Janeway is unaccustomed in dealing with currency. What that was supposed to mean, I have no idea; came off as a cheap trick to stave off any discussion about economy in the Star Trek universe.
Personally I think it's untenable to not have some sort of economic system.
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"Why not just make your null hypothesis be that..." - Philosophos |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Godless Red Scum wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | When you have the ability to create anything you want, out of thin air... what use is there for money?
Money is a not a perfect institution.. its just the best we have right now. at a later date, i think humanity will evolve (socially, technologically and/or administratively) past the need for monetary compensation.
I AM a defender of capitalism... but only because MONEY is the standard by which we gauge ones worth in this era of human experience.
at a later time (such as in Star Trek), Star Fleet operates almost purely on self-gratification, scientific endeavor and personal self-improvement. People don't 'go to work' because they HAVE to.. they do it because they CHOOSE to, because they find it fulfilling.
also... keep in mind this is ONLY Star Fleet... i imagine that there ARE plenty of 'bums' in the Federation that don't 'work' in the traditional sense. they're dilettantes, lucky enough to be born into a civilization that 1) can support their every need and 2) don't pressure them to 'work' in the sense we think of today. |
There are many socialists out there who believe socialism will only be possible when further technological and social developments create objective historical conditions conducive to it. |
i might be leaning that way myself... but, at the moment, its basically magical thinking, ya know?
"gee, if i could fly, it would solve so many problems!"
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Sal1981 wrote: | I never understood the economy in the Star Trek universe. Every time the issue of currency or economic thought came up in an episode - I always got a feeling that they basically dodged the question and just focused, unsurprisingly, on the story instead.
But I do remember a scene from Star Trek: Voyager where Janeway is unaccustomed in dealing with currency. What that was supposed to mean, I have no idea; came off as a cheap trick to stave off any discussion about economy in the Star Trek universe.
Personally I think it's untenable to not have some sort of economic system. |
Well, they DO have "Federation credits" which can be used as currency on Federation planets that still have money. they're redeemable for Federation goods and services.
Also, money is STILL all over the Galaxy... the Ferengi use "gold-pressed latinum", for instance.
think of it this way: they have replicators. what good is money? what would you buy? just about any object or resource can simply be constructed at will, at the atomic level, from basic matter (even pure waste). What REALLY becomes valuable in that sort of society is people.... their ideas, their actions and their effect on society. yes, the DO have prisons in Star Trek.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Godless Red Scum
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 837
Local time: 4:57 AM
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | Godless Red Scum wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | When you have the ability to create anything you want, out of thin air... what use is there for money?
Money is a not a perfect institution.. its just the best we have right now. at a later date, i think humanity will evolve (socially, technologically and/or administratively) past the need for monetary compensation.
I AM a defender of capitalism... but only because MONEY is the standard by which we gauge ones worth in this era of human experience.
at a later time (such as in Star Trek), Star Fleet operates almost purely on self-gratification, scientific endeavor and personal self-improvement. People don't 'go to work' because they HAVE to.. they do it because they CHOOSE to, because they find it fulfilling.
also... keep in mind this is ONLY Star Fleet... i imagine that there ARE plenty of 'bums' in the Federation that don't 'work' in the traditional sense. they're dilettantes, lucky enough to be born into a civilization that 1) can support their every need and 2) don't pressure them to 'work' in the sense we think of today. |
There are many socialists out there who believe socialism will only be possible when further technological and social developments create objective historical conditions conducive to it. |
i might be leaning that way myself... but, at the moment, its basically magical thinking, ya know?
"gee, if i could fly, it would solve so many problems!" |
Well, perhaps if we're lookign at utopian-type scenario, but I definitely think we possess the technology to start building a system superior to capitalism. For instance, there is no reason, that with today's technology, that anyone anywhere should be starving or malnourished. There is also no reason mass-production agriculture should cause as much dislocation and economic hardship for small farmers (especially in Mexico and elsewhere in the Third World) as it currently does. There are no technological impediments to correcting these problems, only roadblocks thrown up by the current political and economic superstructures. |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 22596
Local time: 4:57 AM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Godless Red Scum wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | Godless Red Scum wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | When you have the ability to create anything you want, out of thin air... what use is there for money?
Money is a not a perfect institution.. its just the best we have right now. at a later date, i think humanity will evolve (socially, technologically and/or administratively) past the need for monetary compensation.
I AM a defender of capitalism... but only because MONEY is the standard by which we gauge ones worth in this era of human experience.
at a later time (such as in Star Trek), Star Fleet operates almost purely on self-gratification, scientific endeavor and personal self-improvement. People don't 'go to work' because they HAVE to.. they do it because they CHOOSE to, because they find it fulfilling.
also... keep in mind this is ONLY Star Fleet... i imagine that there ARE plenty of 'bums' in the Federation that don't 'work' in the traditional sense. they're dilettantes, lucky enough to be born into a civilization that 1) can support their every need and 2) don't pressure them to 'work' in the sense we think of today. |
There are many socialists out there who believe socialism will only be possible when further technological and social developments create objective historical conditions conducive to it. |
i might be leaning that way myself... but, at the moment, its basically magical thinking, ya know?
"gee, if i could fly, it would solve so many problems!" |
Well, perhaps if we're lookign at utopian-type scenario, but I definitely think we possess the technology to start building a system superior to capitalism. For instance, there is no reason, that with today's technology, that anyone anywhere should be starving or malnourished. There is also no reason mass-production agriculture should cause as much dislocation and economic hardship for small farmers (especially in Mexico and elsewhere in the Third World) as it currently does. There are no technological impediments to correcting these problems, only roadblocks thrown up by the current political and economic superstructures. |
indeed. and don't get me started on whats holding us back from having hydrogen-powered cars whose waste product is clean water.
When i walk through our local, huge-ass, grocery store i feel so many conflicting emotions... on one hand, its fucking awesome... ANY kind of food i want, from all over the world, fresh and at my fingertips. amazing. so much food, a lot of it simply goes bad before being eaten...
and then i think of all the people all over the world that are starving to death... exactly while i'm trying to figure out which flavor of organic, all-natural potato chips i want.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
www.twitter.com/Moloth
www.MySpace.com/Moloth
www.last.fm/user/moloth
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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