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romans120
Resident Theist
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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Location: The God Shaped Hole in Your Heart
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 Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | and people why we think theists/christians are stupid, hateful, ignorant, arrogant, delusional and harmful people. |
Tell me again who was being harmed by the evil Christians? |
::blank stare::
You don't think it harmful to tell a gay person that they are bad & evil people that need to change immediately?
Or worse, are only befriending a gay person in order to change them?
Here's a quote of my own (which is super cocky! Damn! Yet I am not sorry....):
| Me wrote: | | A hundred years ago, saying a woman or a black person would be able to vote in a hundred years was enough to get you ostracized and maybe even hung for being a sympathizer. A hundred years from now gay men and women will marry as they please in the eyes of the law and it will be looked back on to today as "some over zealous Christians" that held that progress of freedom back in the name of their roses-and-chocolate bearing divine invisible leader, Jesus. |
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Are their things people do that it would be harmful if we did not encourage them to change?
(understanding is infinitely more profitable than agreement.) I agree had the moms attitude not changed her behavior would have been harmful to her son. However, even though she now disagrees with her son and her son's companions choices. There is mutual understanding and the relationship is beneficial.
_________________
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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JBCuzISaidSo
Jaded Humanist
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Romans, have you ever been on the other side of a deep personal choice than that of a close family member? I absolutely have (and am all the time thanks to my non-belief inside a deeply religious family) and I say that yes, it is harmful to stand in constant judgment of such an important part of yourself in front of people that mean so very much to you.
It is, in my opinion, not beneficial to maintain relationships with people that judge you on such a personal level. The harm comes for the person in question, that their extremely personal choices don't happen to be good enough to the people that matter more than many may let on. The cost on your own self-worth is a huge one.
And where does this judgment come from? An old book proclaiming no more than a few good stories on being good.
This "mutual understanding" you speak of is that of judgment and disapproval. Both of which are negative aspects associated directly with the mother's clinging to that old, outdated, silly little book.
Good old Christianity.
Again, I'd love this "Tim's" phone number. His choices/ways of being are his own, he could use a person or two to stand behind him. Even though his mother's acceptance of it is so important, it's something he'll never see, and that is the biggest shame of all. |
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romans120
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | Romans, have you ever been on the other side of a deep personal choice than that of a close family member? I absolutely have (and am all the time thanks to my non-belief inside a deeply religious family) and I say that yes, it is harmful to stand in constant judgment of such an important part of yourself in front of people that mean so very much to you.
It is, in my opinion, not beneficial to maintain relationships with people that judge you on such a personal level. The harm comes for the person in question, that their extremely personal choices don't happen to be good enough to the people that matter more than many may let on. The cost on your own self-worth is a huge one.
And where does this judgment come from? An old book proclaiming no more than a few good stories on being good.
This "mutual understanding" you speak of is that of judgment and disapproval. Both of which are negative aspects associated directly with the mother's clinging to that old, outdated, silly little book.
Good old Christianity.
Again, I'd love this "Tim's" phone number. His choices/ways of being are his own, he could use a person or two to stand behind him. Even though his mother's acceptance of it is so important, it's something he'll never see, and that is the biggest shame of all. |
If the story is accurate "Tim" doesn't feel that way. I agree people do look down on people Christians and non-Christians alike. But believing some things are right and some things are wrong is a completely different issue. If their is understanding there can be disagreement without condescension. What you ascribed to be the cause of loss of self worth is condescension not disapproval. Disapproval is completely unavoidable to any ethical system.
Would be willing to answer my question? Are there things people do that it would be harmful to not encourage them to change?
_________________
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: |
Would be willing to answer my question? Are there things people do that it would be harmful to not encourage them to change? |
I'll answer it:
Yes, of course. Do you believe that, generally speaking, homosexuality is a choice that can be changed?
If so, then can you try to get turned on by the thought of having sex with another man? If it doesn't work, then flip it: This is how gays feel about women - although they're probably more open-minded since the social norm is heterosexuality. |
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Noggin
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1051
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Location: Columbus Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Christian Women |
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| A_Atheist_named_Christian wrote: | | caseagainstfaith wrote: | | A_Atheist_named_Christian wrote: | Read the whole story.
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There's a "post a comment" link at the bottom, but it doesn't work. At least it doesn't for me. I assume this is intentional. |
Indeed I think it is.
The first thing I clicked after I finished reading the article was the "post a comment" link,
And it didn't work for me either. |
I'm still trying to understand how you dug up an article 10+ years old? That long after the fact, yeah, the comments bit prolly won't work.
-Noggin |
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romans120
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Location: The God Shaped Hole in Your Heart
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | romans120 wrote: |
Would be willing to answer my question? Are there things people do that it would be harmful to not encourage them to change? |
I'll answer it:
Yes, of course. Do you believe that, generally speaking, homosexuality is a choice that can be changed?
If so, then can you try to get turned on by the thought of having sex with another man? If it doesn't work, then flip it: This is how gays feel about women - although they're probably more open-minded since the social norm is heterosexuality. |
I don't have the foggiest notion of why a dude would do a dude. I am not going to pretend to know what causes it. I am not opposed to the idea that is natural. We all are born with a nature that is bent to destructing itself. What I do know is if my kid had a strong in-born bent to french kiss electrical outlets I'm going to try to change their behavior.
Can sex outside boundaries be harmful to individuals?
_________________
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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kmisho
Stochastic
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 4681
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Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | | romans120 wrote: |
Would be willing to answer my question? Are there things people do that it would be harmful to not encourage them to change? |
I'll answer it:
Yes, of course. Do you believe that, generally speaking, homosexuality is a choice that can be changed?
If so, then can you try to get turned on by the thought of having sex with another man? If it doesn't work, then flip it: This is how gays feel about women - although they're probably more open-minded since the social norm is heterosexuality. |
I don't have the foggiest notion of why a dude would do a dude. I am not going to pretend to know what causes it. I am not opposed to the idea that is natural. We all are born with a nature that is bent to destructing itself. What I do know is if my kid had a strong in-born bent to french kiss electrical outlets I'm going to try to change their behavior.
Can sex outside boundaries be harmful to individuals? |
Just when I start to think romans has half a brain cell, he posts this.
It's easier for a civilized man to pretend to be a barbarian than it is for a barbarian to pretend to be civilized.
_________________
K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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JBCuzISaidSo
Jaded Humanist
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | romans120 wrote: |
Would be willing to answer my question? Are there things people do that it would be harmful to not encourage them to change? |
I'll answer it:
Yes, of course. Do you believe that, generally speaking, homosexuality is a choice that can be changed?
If so, then can you try to get turned on by the thought of having sex with another man? If it doesn't work, then flip it: This is how gays feel about women - although they're probably more open-minded since the social norm is heterosexuality. |
I have to agree with Mr C here. Is being attracted to those of the same sex as yourself THAT far of a stretch of morality?
Someone I know just lost their 1 year old niece to a drug-addicted mother that watched her fall down a long flight of stairs, and instead of calling 9-1-1 at the sight of a passed out BABY, she picked her up and put her on her bed to sleep it off. The child died within hours of being discovered unresponsive, and officially she could have been helped if the mother--under the influence of amphetamines--would have simply called an ambulance immediately after her own child took a sail down the staircase.
Which is more harmful here, some mothers total and utter dependence on drugs.....or some persons knowledge that they are gay? This question is in answer to yours.
How harmful to others is "homosexual" exactly? Sure, sexual boundaries--with REASON, & haha @ your example--such as pedophilia or rape, need to be there. Those acts include psychological issues though, not just a normal person there. But gay? Is that really such a stretch that a persons own parent should not look down on it so completely, all in the name of "god"? I don't think so.
I am very straight. I just hate seeing someone judged so completely based on their sexual orientation. That's SO PERSONAL....."...and it harm none. Do what thou wilst.". It makes me sick to read things such as Christian posted, all in the name of some ancient BOOK? Wow! |
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
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Location: Cin City, OH!
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Mr_C
Reckoner
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 6608
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Location: Pale Blue Dot
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | I don't have the foggiest notion of why a dude would do a dude. |
LOL 
| Quote: | | I am not going to pretend to know what causes it. I am not opposed to the idea that is natural. |
Thank you for your honesty.
| Quote: | | We all are born with a nature that is bent to destructing itself. |
Quite the opposite, actually.
| Quote: | | What I do know is if my kid had a strong in-born bent to french kiss electrical outlets I'm going to try to change their behavior. |
Non sequitor...
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Can sex outside boundaries be harmful to individuals? |
Of course. Does that mean that you should set these boundaries for other people? |
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JBCuzISaidSo
Jaded Humanist
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 2143
Local time: 11:04 PM
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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That earned an R-O-T-F-L!
(You username is deceiving, EyeDunno!  ) |
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 3804
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Location: Cin City, OH!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks.  One of my favorite Mr. Show sketches.
As for the article, it's insane. "They called me a fag in school, so now I'm a fag!" She's trying to rationalize it any way she can. It would seem more likely that he picked up "teh gay" from pops, and long before the gay bar incident. Funny how easily religious conservatives who are supposedly "born again" (and therefore protected by Jesus from temptation) can be "tempted by Satan". Meanwhile, I've viewed lots of gay porn (okay, it was mostly over a period of a few hours, and it was for the purpose of Photoshopping into a pic of Ted Haggard, but still, I looked at tons of hardcore gay porn ) and have never once been sexually attracted to a guy. You'd think I was leaving myself wide open to this Satan dude.
And speaking of Satan, why does he have to bother? All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, so one would think Satan wouldn't even have to do anything and doesn't have to exist, and Christians could thus throw away their current de facto polytheism.
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romans120
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Romans
| Quote: |
Can sex outside boundaries be harmful to individuals? |
Mr._C
| Quote: | | Of course. Does that mean that you should set these boundaries for other people? |
Bare with me a minute I want to state my position before I answer the question, because it will help keep my answer clear. (my position is not very popular within my circles so don't tell anybody shhh)
I do not recognize gay marriage because I recognize marriage between a male and a female as a symbol, given by God, of the relationship between Christ and the Church. I do not believe that government has any say over who can and can not be married. Nor do I believe the government has any say over what churches teach or that they have to recognize or preform said marriages. I don't think the government should be giving incentives to anybody.
Now for you question it depends upon what you mean by "set these boundaries." I do think criminal or publicly indecent boundaries should be enforced. But I see no problem in individuals articulating and arguing about what the boundaries are. If I believe something to be harmful I will teach my children that that thing is harmful. I am not a bad person for doing that. I am a bad person for allowing my child to do something harmful without telling them that it is harmful.
If sex outside of certain unspecified boundaries is harmful how do we determine what those boundaries are?
_________________
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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MidnightCougar
Intern
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 55
Local time: 9:04 PM
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Considering marriage is traditionally a legal contract (long before religion) I'd say it's more likely that the church has no business being involved with marriages. |
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 4908
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Location: Wilmington, DE
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | Meanwhile, I've viewed lots of gay porn (okay, it was mostly over a period of a few hours, and it was for the purpose of Photoshopping into a pic of Ted Haggard, but still, I looked at tons of hardcore gay porn ) and have never once been sexually attracted to a guy. You'd think I was leaving myself wide open to this Satan dude.
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I don't know about Satan, but you're leaving yourself wide open to a whole genre of jokes.
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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