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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| drix41 wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | What about romans120 (atheist) vs atheod (theist).
That would be a hell of a debate. |
I agree with this...any other takers?? |
Interesting thought, but atheod's version of whatever it is he believes is pretty weird. Most of the time it seems like he's just making shit up as he goes. Does his theism make any more sense to other theists than it does to atheists?
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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romans120
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | | drix41 wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | What about romans120 (atheist) vs atheod (theist).
That would be a hell of a debate. |
I agree with this...any other takers?? |
Interesting thought, but atheod's version of whatever it is he believes is pretty weird. Most of the time it seems like he's just making shit up as he goes. Does his theism make any more sense to other theists than it does to atheists? |
open theism is pretty new. within the last twenty years. However, it is spreading fast within evangelicalism though it is mostly among the those who are already very close to crossing over into theological liberalism. Those who began the movement have even drifted themselves to a position commonly described as "process theology" which is panentheistic in it's beliefs. (all this to say your probably just sensing the new ageyness of it)
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The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 4613
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Location: Wilmington, DE
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | | drix41 wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | What about romans120 (atheist) vs atheod (theist).
That would be a hell of a debate. |
I agree with this...any other takers?? |
Interesting thought, but atheod's version of whatever it is he believes is pretty weird. Most of the time it seems like he's just making shit up as he goes. Does his theism make any more sense to other theists than it does to atheists? |
open theism is pretty new. within the last twenty years. However, it is spreading fast within evangelicalism though it is mostly among the those who are already very close to crossing over into theological liberalism. Those who began the movement have even drifted themselves to a position commonly described as "process theology" which is panentheistic in it's beliefs. (all this to say your probably just sensing the new ageyness of it) |
I looked up a little info about it. I'm sort of suprised it's big within the evangelicals, cause it's sort of a first step away from the literal inerrency of the Bible, a chink in the armor. Seems basically like a bit of cherry-picking to get around the logical roadblocks an omnimax deity runs into. You're a more traditional Christian, right? What do you think of it?
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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romans120
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | | drix41 wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | What about romans120 (atheist) vs atheod (theist).
That would be a hell of a debate. |
I agree with this...any other takers?? |
Interesting thought, but atheod's version of whatever it is he believes is pretty weird. Most of the time it seems like he's just making shit up as he goes. Does his theism make any more sense to other theists than it does to atheists? |
open theism is pretty new. within the last twenty years. However, it is spreading fast within evangelicalism though it is mostly among the those who are already very close to crossing over into theological liberalism. Those who began the movement have even drifted themselves to a position commonly described as "process theology" which is panentheistic in it's beliefs. (all this to say your probably just sensing the new ageyness of it) |
I looked up a little info about it. I'm sort of suprised it's big within the evangelicals, cause it's sort of a first step away from the literal inerrency of the Bible, a chink in the armor. Seems basically like a bit of cherry-picking to get around the logical roadblocks an omnimax deity runs into. You're a more traditional Christian, right? What do you think of it? |
I think you hit the nail on the head. It is a weak system simply because the whole point it exists is because people wanted to keep elements of the old system but couldn't deal with the difficult aspects of the old system. (namely, suffering) While he isn't the father of open theism "Rabbi Harold Kushner" articulated the purpose of open theism in his book "when bad things happen to good people".
Open theism in short does not depend upon a literal interpretation of the Bible but rather the philosophicle assertions of "proccess theology" which at it's core is panentheistic (which is different the pantheism, it's kind of this weird idea that all is God but not identical to God - honestly I still can't proccess the concept) So since I see no point in being theistic apart from revelation I think open theists would be much better off just embracing atheism (they wouldn't have to think nearly as hard)
_________________
The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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fascinating stuff, though.. O_o
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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Location: Wilmington, DE
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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It is an interesting topic.
| Quote: | | So since I see no point in being theistic apart from revelation I think open theists would be much better off just embracing atheism (they wouldn't have to think nearly as hard) |
That's a fair point, but it seems a lot of people just feel like they need to believe in something. It takes courage to say, "I don't believe in God, I don't think there's a paradise waiting when I die, and I doubt I'll see the people I care about ever again once they or I'm dead." Lot of people, even if they're on the fence about their beliefs, or just starting to find holes in what they believe and questioning, just don't have it in them to take that step.
Besides atheism isn't exactly a popular stance. Look at how many people who would technically be atheists call themselves agnostic or some other term just because it's a slightly more acceptable stance. They they can just say "I don't know" and there's always that chance they could come back into the fold so they don't get ostracized by family & others as much. They've been engrained with that oh so lovely prejudice that atheists=evil=satanists and you can't be moral without a god.
I live in the northeast and I know plenty of people that would probably still call themselves Christian if asked and that they believe in God and heaven because it's what they were always told, but they rarely go to church, rarely think of God except in a trivial sense, and their beliefs are only a peripheral factor in their life. In the more educated, middle class professional circles around here virtually nobody is very religious. They just don't have the desire to really sit down and question what they actually believe or just truly entertain the possibility that God might not exist.
People will bullshit themselves, cherry pick what they have to, and basically invent their own deity (still calling themselves Christian) just so they don't have to either reconcile hard questions like the POE, or accept the fact that maybe they don't really believe at all. That's basically my opinion of what most liberal Christians, and to a slightly different extent these open theists like atheod are doing. At least the open theists seem to want to think about it and attempt to take an intellectual approach. Most liberal Christians just want to stick their fingers in their ears, say "lalalalala," suffer through an occasional Sunday morning because they feel guilty, and go through their life without giving it a second thought.
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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ShaSha
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | They they can just say "I don't know" and there's always that chance they could come back into the fold so they don't get ostracized by family & others as much. They've been engrained with that oh so lovely prejudice that atheists=evil=satanists and you can't be moral without a god.
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You made that up BAtM! 
While some might fit that, it really is a time for searching and a time for taking our own. That you and others chose atheism isn't a feather in your cap other than it is what felt best for you and what you found the best evidence for.
When will individual truly be understood? When that happens, "Then peace will guide the planets And love will steer the stars" ")
Seriously, where in logic and reason does generalization fit in? It is the hardest habit that I as a human have had to break. We are taught to speak in generalizations from birth, through school and onward if we are among the misfortunate. Some theists label atheists to their children and through their churches. Some atheists label theists to their children in their attitudes and mark them as a tad or more unintelligent.
But you don't know which theists have prejudices towards atheists until you actually encounter them. And I suspect that a lot of it is how you yourself are presenting yourself that day.
I haven't followed Atheod at all in this forum but I like a lot of the aspects of open theism. If I had time, I would debate Romans on the merits of free thinking theology but I don't have time. |
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Moloth
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Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ShaSha wrote: | | BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | They they can just say "I don't know" and there's always that chance they could come back into the fold so they don't get ostracized by family & others as much. They've been engrained with that oh so lovely prejudice that atheists=evil=satanists and you can't be moral without a god.
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You made that up BAtM!
While some might fit that, it really is a time for searching and a time for taking our own. That you and others chose atheism isn't a feather in your cap other than it is what felt best for you and what you found the best evidence for.
When will individual truly be understood? When that happens, "Then peace will guide the planets And love will steer the stars" ")
Seriously, where in logic and reason does generalization fit in? It is the hardest habit that I as a human have had to break. We are taught to speak in generalizations from birth, through school and onward if we are among the misfortunate. Some theists label atheists to their children and through their churches. Some atheists label theists to their children in their attitudes and mark them as a tad or more unintelligent.
But you don't know which theists have prejudices towards atheists until you actually encounter them. And I suspect that a lot of it is how you yourself are presenting yourself that day.
I haven't followed Atheod at all in this forum but I like a lot of the aspects of open theism. If I had time, I would debate Romans on the merits of free thinking theology but I don't have time. |
you truly are delusional, Sha.
How horrifying it must be to live in such a non-reality of feelings, in lieu of facts, evidence and reason.
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www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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romans120
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ShaSha wrote: | | BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | They they can just say "I don't know" and there's always that chance they could come back into the fold so they don't get ostracized by family & others as much. They've been engrained with that oh so lovely prejudice that atheists=evil=satanists and you can't be moral without a god.
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You made that up BAtM!
While some might fit that, it really is a time for searching and a time for taking our own. That you and others chose atheism isn't a feather in your cap other than it is what felt best for you and what you found the best evidence for.
When will individual truly be understood? When that happens, "Then peace will guide the planets And love will steer the stars" ")
Seriously, where in logic and reason does generalization fit in? It is the hardest habit that I as a human have had to break. We are taught to speak in generalizations from birth, through school and onward if we are among the misfortunate. Some theists label atheists to their children and through their churches. Some atheists label theists to their children in their attitudes and mark them as a tad or more unintelligent.
But you don't know which theists have prejudices towards atheists until you actually encounter them. And I suspect that a lot of it is how you yourself are presenting yourself that day.
I haven't followed Atheod at all in this forum but I like a lot of the aspects of open theism. If I had time, I would debate Romans on the merits of free thinking theology but I don't have time. |
Are you a theist? and can you tell me what you mean by "free thinking theology"? cause I interpret that as "God can be whatever I want Him to be"
he he....try to avoid a debate with me will you. no one can resist my rhetorical questionyness
_________________
The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Theist Fight!!!1!one!
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Summary: Just play nice, mmkay? |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
"If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?"
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The Atheist Forums Rules
Summary: Just play nice, mmkay? |
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Raskolnikov
The Axe Murderer
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | Romans120 vs atheod would be extremely entertaining... |
Atheod pisses me off beyond all rational belief. But, I still think pr126 should represent Islam.  Or even possibly Jason_Harvestdancer.
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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
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ChrissyFos
Lobal Dominatrix
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: | | Or even possibly Jason_Harvestdancer. |
That's who I was thinking of as well. |
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ShaSha
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
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Local time: 8:48 PM
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | ShaSha wrote: | | BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | They they can just say "I don't know" and there's always that chance they could come back into the fold so they don't get ostracized by family & others as much. They've been engrained with that oh so lovely prejudice that atheists=evil=satanists and you can't be moral without a god.
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You made that up BAtM!
While some might fit that, it really is a time for searching and a time for taking our own. That you and others chose atheism isn't a feather in your cap other than it is what felt best for you and what you found the best evidence for.
When will individual truly be understood? When that happens, "Then peace will guide the planets And love will steer the stars" ")
Seriously, where in logic and reason does generalization fit in? It is the hardest habit that I as a human have had to break. We are taught to speak in generalizations from birth, through school and onward if we are among the misfortunate. Some theists label atheists to their children and through their churches. Some atheists label theists to their children in their attitudes and mark them as a tad or more unintelligent.
But you don't know which theists have prejudices towards atheists until you actually encounter them. And I suspect that a lot of it is how you yourself are presenting yourself that day.
I haven't followed Atheod at all in this forum but I like a lot of the aspects of open theism. If I had time, I would debate Romans on the merits of free thinking theology but I don't have time. |
Are you a theist? and can you tell me what you mean by "free thinking theology"? cause I interpret that as "God can be whatever I want Him to be"
he he....try to avoid a debate with me will you. no one can resist my rhetorical questionyness |
I'll discuss with you but no prolonged debate because I'm easy. Believe what you want as long as you harm none.
I was a devout Catholic with a strong secular background until about age 22. Then broadened my views to where I saw all major religions as having similar core truths. I have always been one to get answers to major type prayers so my evidence for me was sufficient reason to stay agnostic theist for about a year. I didn't care which view was true, atheism or theism. I was open to what I would discover. Due to experiences I had that were undefined by science and religion for the most part, I knew there was a god, I didn't believe. I also knew that each of us is right if it is our decision. Decades later, I have not changed my mind, just broadened it more and more. So there really isn't too much to debate with me because we are both win win Glad to discuss though if you want to toss something at me. We could fight just a little to please Mr_C
Also Nimitz posted a terrific article that sums up my feelings quite well.
http://www.atheistforums.com/how-to-abandon-your-god-t6477.html#141782 |
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