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MichaelR Visitor

Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 4 Local time: 6:13 AM
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: OK, jumping in. |
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This will be the first time I have spoke about this to anyone besides my wife. I know no one who personally who feels as I do.
I am 38 years old now, and haven't been able to buy the God theory for about ten years.
I was raised in a religious environment. I went to Catholic schools. At one point in my life, I could not even imagine how someone could not believe in God. I would pray for what I needed, and if I did not get it, there "must have been a different plan that God has in store for me."
I, like some of you, follow the big bang theory as how we came to be. I truly believe this is how we were created. As for God:
I wish he/she existed. I also wish Santa existed too.
I believe the belief in God for most people is a necessity to keep order in society. - I get by...
My wife and daughter go to church every Sunday. I like that this seems to help them both. I hope my daughter continues to believe in God as I believe it will help her make better decisions in life as she grows up.
Am I a hypocrite?
As for God creating earth: He must have gone though a lot of trouble leaving evolution evidence in the process.
At some point, there was the big bang. Who or what created that? If it was a "what" where did it come from, and who created that?
This is where I keep my "faith". Something started it all. But whatever it was will most probably not be dropping by for my soul when I die.
So my feelings are this: Make the most out of this life. Thats all.
I plan on visiting these forums often and thanks for the support. _________________ It is what it is. |
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caseagainstfaith God's gift to atheism

Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Posts: 3547 Local time: 9:13 AM Location: Houston, TX USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: OK, jumping in. |
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| MichaelR wrote: |
I hope my daughter continues to believe in God as I believe it will help her make better decisions in life as she grows up.
Am I a hypocrite?
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Well, I disagree that believing in Santa is going to help her make better decisions. Oh, I meant God, same diff. I do agree that having a social network is helpful to people, and many people find that in church. I can't disagree with that. I don't think it is necessary to get it from church, but, I can't deny that many people do find comfort in it. _________________ Please visit my site at www.caseagainstfaith.com featuring critiques of Lee Strobel and other apologetics
Check out my InfidelGuy interviews, tapes 117 and 269 |
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RyanDzundza Sock Puppet

Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 5250 Local time: 9:13 AM Location: Manchester

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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: OK, jumping in. |
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first off welcome to the forums,
secondly i dont think your a hypocrit, if your daughter truly needs to believe in god to become a better person (though i cant see how it would but thats just me) then you would obviously want whats best for her
i myself would also like their to be a god, but non of the intolerent and obviously man made gods that are around today, just because the idea of heaven is appealing for obvious reasons, but i wont delude myself into thinking something that there is absolutely no evidence for
| MichaelR wrote: | | I believe the belief in God for most people is a necessity to keep order in society. - I get by... |
i disagree with this statement though, as Norway is a very secular country with a majority atheist/agnostic population and it has one of the lowest crime rates in the world and has been placed 1st for the highest standard of living numerous times,
Britain is also a majority atheist/agnostic country and we also have a fairly decent standard of living
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#2007_report
looks like UK is being the US but is up to places at least _________________
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Nimitz Guest
Local time: 7:13 PM
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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No you're not a hypocrite. You're an atheist.
Have you told the rest of the family? Do you still attend church?
It's good that you let the rest of the family follow their own path. |
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MichaelR Visitor

Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 4 Local time: 6:13 AM
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: OK, jumping in. |
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| caseagainstfaith wrote: | | MichaelR wrote: |
I hope my daughter continues to believe in God as I believe it will help her make better decisions in life as she grows up.
Am I a hypocrite?
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Well, I disagree that believing in Santa is going to help her make better decisions. Oh, I meant God, same diff. I do agree that having a social network is helpful to people, and many people find that in church. I can't disagree with that. I don't think it is necessary to get it from church, but, I can't deny that many people do find comfort in it. |
I guess that's what I'm driving at. I do feel it is my responsibity to teach her how to live a good life.
I want want my daughter to know the difference between " right and wrong" in society. As I personally feel silly going to church, I think there are some good things that come out of it. I did learn a value or two in church growing up. I also was an alter boy and thought I was going to burn in hell for stealing cigarette money from the offering plate.... (13 at the time).
My daughter is 11, and does not believe in Santa any more.
I don't know where I'm going with this. I just know how we got here from the big bang theory forward. _________________ It is what it is. |
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AtheistEngineer AE

Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 544 Local time: 3:13 AM Location: ATL/HOU
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Don't be so concerned about the relationship between god and your daughter's decision making abilities. I grew up in a completely secular home, never believed in god, never went to church (by myself that is), and I'd say I've been pretty successful in life so far. It's all about parenting, church can't do that for you. You seem like a bright person, so I'm sure you have nothing to worry about with your daughter, no matter what she ends up believing in.
And welcome to the forum! |
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MichaelR Visitor

Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 4 Local time: 6:13 AM
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Nimitz wrote: | No you're not a hypocrite. You're an atheist.
Have you told the rest of the family? Do you still attend church?
It's good that you let the rest of the family follow their own path. |
Hi Nimitz,
My wife tries to get me into church on the holidays. I feel like a "spy" going. My wife kind of gets my views and respects them, and I do the same.
My father kind of gets it, but holds on to the " take what you like and leave the rest" from church. I can appreciate that attitude as well.
My mother (brought up as an orphan in a convent in Italy) would get no benifet from my thoughts on the subject.
How about you? _________________ It is what it is. |
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greyghost Annoyingly Addicting

Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 1251 Local time: 5:13 AM Location: Earth, Milky way, Universe
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | myself would also like their to be a god, but non of the intolerent and obviously man made gods that are around today, just because the idea of heaven is appealing for obvious reasons.... |
Ryan, I find this perplexing. I cannot fathom, nor would I want there to be, a god. I totally agree with Christopher Hitchens, all a theistic god stands for is freedom denying worship. And a heaven? I can't fathom it either. I'm not interested at all at living for eternity, it seems to cheapen the time spent on this earth, makes it not worth nearly as much.
| Quote: | | I also was an alter boy and thought I was going to burn in hell for stealing cigarette money from the offering plate.... (13 at the time). |
I find this even more strange. It seems as if you have learned that you don't need to have a fear for a powerful deity to be a "good" person, yet you manage to attribute your "morals" from your religious upbringing. I must ask, do you think it is possible to raise a child to be "moral" without the aid of a religion to scare them into it?
Oh, and welcome to the forums mick (mind if I call you that? _________________ "There is no such uncertainty, as a sure thing."-Robert Burns
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."-Albert Einstein
"Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons."-Bertrand Russell
"I want someone to quote me in their signature. That's why I'm a pandering whore."-CET
New blog entry- 11/03/08 |
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Nimitz Guest
Local time: 7:13 PM
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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The basic message of religion is fine. Love, peace, good will and all that. The devil is in the details.
You're honest and open about it with the family. So I'd drop the hypocrite tag.
Getting dragged to church a couple of times a year isn't so bad. It could be worse, you could get dragged to the ice capades, or a book of the month club!
The only time I make it to church these days is for weddings and funerals.
Oh and welcome aboard. |
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RyanDzundza Sock Puppet

Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 5250 Local time: 9:13 AM Location: Manchester

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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| greyghost wrote: | | Ryan, I find this perplexing. I cannot fathom, nor would I want there to be, a god. I totally agree with Christopher Hitchens, all a theistic god stands for is freedom denying worship. And a heaven? I can't fathom it either. I'm not interested at all at living for eternity, it seems to cheapen the time spent on this earth, makes it not worth nearly as much. |
you make a good point,
maybe when im older and have achieved more from this life then i will like the idea of heaven less, dont get me wrong im in no way kidding myself that their is a heaven and i do try to make the most of my time on earth so its not really cheapening my time spent on earth so far
now that i think about it, living for all eternity would probably get tedious even if it was in your own vision of paradise, lets face it theres only so much you can experience before everything becomes mundane _________________
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MichaelR Visitor

Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 4 Local time: 6:13 AM
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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I can't begin to tell you all what a relief it is to hear of others with simalar issues. I only call it an issue because it's not the "norm".
Call me Mick or whatever. Just don't call me obsolved....
Thanks people. _________________ It is what it is. |
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Raskolnikov The Axe Murderer

Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1906 Local time: 2:13 AM Location: Las Vegas

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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome! I hope you find what you want here. Although I do find it hard to understand why someone needs to believe in an invisible flying pink elephant to live a good life, just me though. But seriously, think about it. Have you seen some of the bad scripture in the Bible? Personally, I wouldn't my kids touching that filth. _________________ "Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
-Dr. Emmett Brown |
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SpecterOpacus Divine Intervention saves raids.

Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 1551 Local time: 5:13 AM
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: OK, jumping in. |
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| MichaelR wrote: | | caseagainstfaith wrote: | | MichaelR wrote: |
I hope my daughter continues to believe in God as I believe it will help her make better decisions in life as she grows up.
Am I a hypocrite?
|
Well, I disagree that believing in Santa is going to help her make better decisions. Oh, I meant God, same diff. I do agree that having a social network is helpful to people, and many people find that in church. I can't disagree with that. I don't think it is necessary to get it from church, but, I can't deny that many people do find comfort in it. |
I guess that's what I'm driving at. I do feel it is my responsibity to teach her how to live a good life.
I want want my daughter to know the difference between " right and wrong" in society. As I personally feel silly going to church, I think there are some good things that come out of it. I did learn a value or two in church growing up. I also was an alter boy and thought I was going to burn in hell for stealing cigarette money from the offering plate.... (13 at the time).
My daughter is 11, and does not believe in Santa any more.
I don't know where I'm going with this. I just know how we got here from the big bang theory forward. |
You can still teach your daughter morals without sending her to institutions of mind-fucking.
PS Welcome _________________ "Of the voluntary acts of every man the object is some good to himself." -Thomas Hobbs
"Those who are obsessed with practice, but have no science, are like a pilot out with no tiller or compass..." -Leonardo da Vinci |
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Enemy_of_Real1ty Graphic Terrorist

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 217 Local time: 4:13 AM Location: us
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| SpecterOpacus wrote: | | MichaelR wrote: | | caseagainstfaith wrote: | | MichaelR wrote: |
I hope my daughter continues to believe in God as I believe it will help her make better decisions in life as she grows up.
Am I a hypocrite?
|
Well, I disagree that believing in Santa is going to help her make better decisions. Oh, I meant God, same diff. I do agree that having a social network is helpful to people, and many people find that in church. I can't disagree with that. I don't think it is necessary to get it from church, but, I can't deny that many people do find comfort in it. |
I guess that's what I'm driving at. I do feel it is my responsibity to teach her how to live a good life.
I want want my daughter to know the difference between " right and wrong" in society. As I personally feel silly going to church, I think there are some good things that come out of it. I did learn a value or two in church growing up. I also was an alter boy and thought I was going to burn in hell for stealing cigarette money from the offering plate.... (13 at the time).
My daughter is 11, and does not believe in Santa any more.
I don't know where I'm going with this. I just know how we got here from the big bang theory forward. |
You can still teach your daughter morals without sending her to institutions of mind-fucking.
PS Welcome | I agree 100%
Welcome! _________________
My Blog: http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=31 |
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