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lumpymunk
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 2190
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 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: |
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[quote="BarkAtTheMoon"]
Show me proof there really were 3000 degree fires weeks after 9/11.
[quote]
Thermal Scan
Know how to read one of these?
~Indeed, the trade center fire was "the longest-burning structural fire in history",
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1634
~Even though it rained heavily on September 14, 2001
http://www.courttv.com/assault_on_america/0914_rain_ap.html
~Even though it rained heavily again on September 21, 2001,
http://www.wnbc.com/news/962722/detail.html
~the fires and molten steel were sprayed with high tech fire-retardants,
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1634
~"firetrucks sprayed a nearly constant jet of water on "Ground Zero."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/19/...ain321907.shtml
~"You couldn't even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there," said Tom Manley of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the largest fire department union. "It was like you were creating a giant lake."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/19/...ain321907.shtml
Satisfactory?
I've got enough to begin a new thread on this one topic... and I don't mind to do so.
Just say the word.
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Show me how a thermite reaction could still be burning after 6 weeks and that the cut steel picture wasn't due to another more likely source like, say, from the cleanup crews cutting the steel for removal.
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The metal didn't come from cutting the steel for removal because they were discovering more and more "hot spots" as they dug deeper. These pot spots of molten steel were buried initially and then discovered... not created by clean up crews.
Use a little common sense.
(see previous videos and testimonies linked)
The melting metal existed before the building went down... in the basement... because the molten metal was not a product of clean up... it was used in the demolition.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/9_11/articles/911memories.htm
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Fact is, I've owned all of you throughout this discussion. |
Bring some actual evidence to the table |
Done. Now stop ignoring it.
| Quote: |
other than parroting Loose Change before you claim victory.
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Instead of criticizing the source material itself, deal with the points...
More psychologically evasive behavior from those scared of the truth.
_________________
“Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNOPu_wU6hs |
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lumpymunk
Forum Master
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 2190
Local time: 7:48 PM
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| rickyroma wrote: | | Quote: | | [cartman is] attempting to appeal to the character of "a creationist scientist" in order to invalidate or disregard the point. |
Religionists and new-agers love this conspiracy shit. It's the same appeal - the desire for a controling agency behind the visible chaos of world events. |
1) I'm not religious
2) I'm not a "new ager"
3) I would prefer that the theory be incorrect.
4) I don't believe a single agency is responsible for all of the chaos behind world events, but government fits the bill in a big way.
5) Whats your point?
_________________
“Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNOPu_wU6hs |
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lumpymunk
Forum Master
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 2190
Local time: 7:48 PM
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | rickyroma wrote: | | Quote: | | [cartman is] attempting to appeal to the character of "a creationist scientist" in order to invalidate or disregard the point. |
Religionists and new-agers love this conspiracy shit. It's the same appeal - the desire for a controling agency behind the visible chaos of world events. |
...and having "special knowledge" of a "higher truth". |
1) My knowledge isn't "special."
2) The truth isn't "higher."
3) What you're being shown is what it is... empirical evidence, and you are choosing to evade the acknowledgement of it.
_________________
“Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNOPu_wU6hs |
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FlatEarth1024
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4275
Local time: 12:48 AM
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | rickyroma wrote: | | Quote: | | [cartman is] attempting to appeal to the character of "a creationist scientist" in order to invalidate or disregard the point. |
Religionists and new-agers love this conspiracy shit. It's the same appeal - the desire for a controling agency behind the visible chaos of world events. |
...and having "special knowledge" of a "higher truth". |
1) My knowledge isn't "special."
2) The truth isn't "higher."
3) What you're being shown is what it is... empirical evidence, and you are choosing to evade the acknowledgement of it. |
Lumpy,
Just wondering...you wouldn't know a guy called Nunyabiz would you? Sometimes you remind me of him almost word for word.
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Moloth
Fateless
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23105
Local time: 7:48 PM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: |
1) My knowledge isn't "special."
2) The truth isn't "higher."
3) What you're being shown is what it is... empirical evidence, and you are choosing to evade the acknowledgement of it. |
yes, you're claiming special knowledge about the motivations, behind-the-scene machinations, secret plots and conspiracies that others simply don't or cant know about through superior tactical intelligence.
basically, you have the Truth, no one else does, and they're all blind fools because they don't see evidence where you do.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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FlatEarth1024
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | yes, you're claiming special knowledge about the motivations, behind-the-scene machinations, secret plots and conspiracies that others simply don't or cant know about through superior tactical intelligence.
basically, you have the Truth, no one else does, and they're all blind fools because they don't see evidence where you do. |
HOLY CRAP! You just gave the textbook definition of a Christian Fundy!
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rickyroma
Repressed hippy
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 6521
Local time: 12:48 AM
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: | 1) I'm not religious
2) I'm not a "new ager"
3) I would prefer that the theory be incorrect.
4) I don't believe a single agency is responsible for all of the chaos behind world events, but government fits the bill in a big way.
5) Whats your point? |
1. Never said you are.
2. Never said you are.
3. That's nice.
4. You're forgetting the lizards.
5. You sound like a crank.
_________________
Theists wank too. |
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 5023
Local time: 8:48 PM
Location: Wilmington, DE
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: |
Thermal Scan
Know how to read one of these?
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Not without a scale for what temperatures the colors correspond to, and text for what the lettered arrows are pointing out.
I'm not disputing there were fires weeks after the collapse. I'm well aware that there were fires way after 9/11, I remember the news report around December saying they were just then mostly out. There's plenty of valid reasons why the fires would have persisted without pointing to explosives. Your own link above even talks about it:
| Quote: | Tinsley says there are several reasons for the longevity of the fire: "First, this is not a typical fire by any means. The combustible debris is mixed with twisted steel in a mass that covers 17 acres, and may be 50 metres deep. This is the one all future fire scenes will be measured against."
The other reasons are human. For nearly three weeks, Tinsley says, city officials insisted that work at Ground Zero was a rescue operation, meaning it would have been inappropriate to flood the rubble with water. As a result, he says, "the fires had a 17-day head start when we arrived."
And there is the issue of human remains. These are still being found and removed and, since the fires are not threatening any property or lives, they are being allowed to burn on. |
I'm asking for proof that the fires were that hot.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Show me how a thermite reaction could still be burning after 6 weeks and that the cut steel picture wasn't due to another more likely source like, say, from the cleanup crews cutting the steel for removal.
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The metal didn't come from cutting the steel for removal because they were discovering more and more "hot spots" as they dug deeper. These pot spots of molten steel were buried initially and then discovered... not created by clean up crews.
Use a little common sense.
(see previous videos and testimonies linked)
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What I'm saying is, even if these hot fires existed, why would hot fires weeks later indicate thermite or explosives. Those reactions are very fast burning reactions, which is why they're useful for welding. How would a fire weeks later have kept going if it was being fueled by an explosive that should've burned out in seconds?
I've still yet to see indisputable proof that there was molten steel, and not merely glowing hot steel or another molten metal with a much lower melting point. Most of what I've seen is heresay from witnesses that probably were looking at glowing metal and just called it molten.
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The melting metal existed before the building went down... |
How could you possibly know that or show evidence for that?
One eyewitness barely mentioning at least a year after the fact that he remembers something burning and dripping in the darkness and chaos of the day doesn't tell me anything.
| Quote: | | Turner himself crawled through an opening and down crumpled stairwells to the subway, five levels below ground. He remembers seeing in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow–molten metal dripping from a beam–but found no signs of life. |
It could've been any number of different materials burning and dripping off a beam. How's this even prove that it was from explosives rather than from the jet fuel that was known to have poured down the elevator shafts? It's not a secret there were fires in the basement after the planes struck.
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Done. Now stop ignoring it.
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I haven't ignored anything. I just won't accept unconvincing speculation without evidence.
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Instead of criticizing the source material itself, deal with the points...
More psychologically evasive behavior from those scared of the truth. |
Loose Change has been crushed repeatedly. Loose Change viewers guide. It would be a waste of time for me to go through the whole thing and step by step debunk it, although I do need to get around to watching it all the way through. I've watched some of it back during the 9/11 threads on the old forums. Avery consistently ignores anything that invalidates his claims, he blatantly quote mines, continues to perpetuate debunked issues (he finally took out the pod nonsense), and with it being a movie, he provides no sources or verification of anything in it. His bias is overwhelmingly apparent. He's nothing more than a hack filmmaker, with no real expertise and using conspiracy ideas that had already been floating around, trying to make money off people who want to believe what he's saying. That, at the very least, makes his movie suspect as a trustworthy source to me.
If you'd like to split off some of the specifics into their own threads, or have a general 9/11 one-to-one conversation to keep from getting inundated and keep out the ad homs and insults, I'm game after the weekend. Conspiracy or not, I find this stuff fascinating, and I enjoy the research.
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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lumpymunk
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 2190
Local time: 7:48 PM
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Nope.
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you're claiming special knowledge about the motivations
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I've only speculated about the motivations, and pointed out (as does Loose Change) who's benefited from the event.
It's logical to deduce that if someone were responsible, they wouldn't go through with it unless it benefited them in some way.
No absolute claims. You're paying more attention to the straw men they're attacking than the actual argument taking place.
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behind-the-scene machinations,
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I've said many times throughout that I have no idea how it happened.
I have positively said the following...
1) The profile of the collapse fits a controlled demolition.
2) The proposed story the government gives you isn't physically possible.
3) The government isn't trying to investigate the matter for "some reason."
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secret plots and conspiracies that others simply don't or cant know about through superior tactical intelligence.
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1) If it was a "secret plot" they didn't keep it a very good secret, because the 9/11 Truth movement (now deemed the "truth virus") is only growing.
2) what superior tactical intelligence are you talking about?
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basically, you have the Truth, no one else does,
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Why would a "truth movement" (a movement in search of the truth) claim to already know it?
I don't...
Loose Change doesn't...
There are some facts about 9/11 that don't fit... why?
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and they're all blind fools because they don't see evidence where you do.
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They're not blind fools, they're cowards because they don't consider the evidence.
They are so quick to embrace NIST examples that have been abandoned by NIST themselves... while offering no other explanation for the questions. It's evasion... which you could argue is foolish...
_________________
“Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNOPu_wU6hs |
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lumpymunk
Forum Master
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 2190
Local time: 7:48 PM
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| FlatEarth1024 wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | yes, you're claiming special knowledge about the motivations, behind-the-scene machinations, secret plots and conspiracies that others simply don't or cant know about through superior tactical intelligence.
basically, you have the Truth, no one else does, and they're all blind fools because they don't see evidence where you do. |
HOLY CRAP! You just gave the textbook definition of a Christian Fundy! |
He just misapplied it.
_________________
“Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNOPu_wU6hs |
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