| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Moloth
Fateless
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23105
Local time: 7:12 PM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
|
 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: |
  |
|
| UnderGrace wrote: | | Quote: | Quote:
To undermine belief in the creation account in Genesis is to undermine the very foundations of the Christian faith. Evolutionary theory and the teachings of Christ are incompatible. Any attempt to marry these beliefs can only give birth to a weak faith that is prone to being “tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching.”—Ephesians 4:14.
|
I don't know who said this...but they are totally taking that scripture out of context lol...it's evident...there's nothing in that scripture that refers to evolution or the belief in evolution. Whoever said this must not have been aware of the seven-age creation theory. Throughout scripture when it refers to God creating...it never says specifically that it was 7 literal days of creation. |
so... its says "days"... and you're questioning whether or not it meant "days"? O_o
"i'll be there in two days"
"okay... see you in two days"
*two days pass*
"hey, man... where are you??"
"oh, i didn't meant DAYS... i meant, ya know... DAYS. DUH. jeesh!"
i swear... thats the best christians can do when faced with the ignorance and insanity that is their religion of the Bible... they actually have to deny the very WORDS, that are in black and white, right in front of their face.
just admit that its nuts, man. you know it is. all of the apologetics in the world can;t fix the bible.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
|
UnderGrace
Intern
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 98
Local time: 6:12 AM
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | yes, its perfectly logical to suddenly create a concept that it is, in itself, completely illogical in order to make an illogical concept seem to make sense. |
Actually it does make logical sense. To say that God could be created doesn't make sense, because therefore that would differ his ultimate authority, not longer making him God, 'Supreme," but instead subject to some greater authority. Therefore, the concept of God requires that God must exist independently, self-sustaining. I'm saying, whether you believe in God or not...this concept of God is true.
| Quote: |
what the fuck does "not bound by time" even mean? can you explain that in a logical way that makes ANY sort of sense? |
In order for God to exist without a creator than he must have always existed. Time is something that God created on for us to live by, but according to the Scripture, God exists in all time and in all places simultaneously. This is obviously unobtainable by human power, and therefore is difficult to understand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RyanDzundza
Sock Puppet
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 5296
Local time: 12:12 AM
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| UnderGrace wrote: |
Well actually, the idea of God would be contradictory if He was created. The only logical explanation, although hard to understand, is that God always existed, He is not bound to time. In order for God to be created would deny his ultimate authority which Webster defines as "Supreme." Therefore the concept of God requires that God was never created. |
the god idea is full of contradictions and holes but they dont seem to bother you, it would be much more logical to say god doesnt exist and has been created by man and not the other way round,
just because we dont know the answers to certain questions in life doesnt mean we should by default automatically assume 'goddidit', we should just say we dont know something religious people seem to have a hard time doing
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
UnderGrace
Intern
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 98
Local time: 6:12 AM
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
so... its says "days"... and you're questioning whether or not it meant "days"? O_o |
The english is the word "days." But the word that is used in the Hebrew text is more ambiguous. It could mean the literal day, or age of time.
| Quote: | 2) The word yōma has multiple meanings in Hebrew. BDB's Hebrew lexicon gives the following definitions:
1) day, time, year
a) day (as opposed to night)
b) day (24 hour period)
1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 11
2) as a division of time
a) a working day, a day's journey
c) days, lifetime (pl.)
d) time, period (general)
e) year
f) temporal references
1) today
2) yesterday
3) tomorrow
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
UnderGrace
Intern
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 98
Local time: 6:12 AM
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
the god idea is full of contradictions and holes but they dont seem to bother you, it would be much more logical to say god doesnt exist and has been created by man and not the other way round,
just because we dont know the answers to certain questions in life doesnt mean we should by default automatically assume 'goddidit', we should just say we dont know something religious people seem to have a hard time doing. |
One, I would like to know what the whole in my logic are exactly...because the idea I presented is actually agreed upon by many atheist scholars who say that it is the very reason why God does not exist. Two, you finally get it! You said we don't know the answer to some questions in life...that means you know that there ARE answers, and science cannot provide them...that's exactly what I've been trying to help you understand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RyanDzundza
Sock Puppet
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 5296
Local time: 12:12 AM
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| UnderGrace wrote: |
One, I would like to know what the whole in my logic are exactly...because the idea I presented is actually agreed upon by many atheist scholars who say that it is the very reason why God does not exist. Two, you finally get it! You said we don't know the answer to some questions in life...that means you know that there ARE answers, and science cannot provide them...that's exactly what I've been trying to help you understand. |
i never said science cannot prove them, it just means were not advanced enough to answer these questions yet,
and you also said that we dont know the questions in life, this means that you dont know the answers either, yet you get your faith from a self contradicting book full of murder, rape and general unpleseantness that was written thousands of years ago and re written many times before you finally got to read it and you take the bits you agree with and ignore or explain away the bits you dont like untill you have your own vision of god
if you cant see the problem with that then i suppose its your imagination, if your happy with what you believe who am i to argue, all i know is there is no way you could possibly know what god is like or even if he exists
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Moloth
Fateless
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23105
Local time: 7:12 PM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| UnderGrace wrote: | | Quote: |
the god idea is full of contradictions and holes but they dont seem to bother you, it would be much more logical to say god doesnt exist and has been created by man and not the other way round,
just because we dont know the answers to certain questions in life doesnt mean we should by default automatically assume 'goddidit', we should just say we dont know something religious people seem to have a hard time doing. |
One, I would like to know what the whole in my logic are exactly...because the idea I presented is actually agreed upon by many atheist scholars who say that it is the very reason why God does not exist. Two, you finally get it! You said we don't know the answer to some questions in life...that means you know that there ARE answers, and science cannot provide them...that's exactly what I've been trying to help you understand. |
yes yes yes... you'd be one of those people saying "if gawd had meant for us to fly, he'd have given us wings!" to the Wright brothers...
and then, when they DID invent powered flight, you would said, "praise the Lord, its a miracle! He blessed the Wright brothers!"
no one here has said ONCE that "science cannot provide them" OR "that there ARE answers". the best you can do is twist what we say into what you want to hear.
its not very honest or effective.
there is NOTHING logical about filling gaps in knowledge with MAGIC.
saying "goddidit" answers and solves NOTHING.
making up an entity with self-contradictory properties, without a shred of evidence is NOT logical.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greyghost
Annoyingly Addicting
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 1254
Local time: 8:12 PM
Location: Earth, Milky way, Universe
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| UnderGrace wrote: |
Actually it does make logical sense. To say that God could be created doesn't make sense, because therefore that would differ his ultimate authority, not longer making him God, 'Supreme," but instead subject to some greater authority. Therefore, the concept of God requires that God must exist independently, self-sustaining. I'm saying, whether you believe in God or not...this concept of God is true. |
I just explained how "God" could have been created and still be supreme.
| Quote: | | In order for God to exist without a creator than he must have always existed. Time is something that God created on for us to live by, but according to the Scripture, God exists in all time and in all places simultaneously. This is obviously unobtainable by human power, and therefore is difficult to understand. |
I just explained this as well. This is BS. "God" does not have to "always exist" to be supreme. Either way, you are making more questions then you have answered.
_________________
"There is no such uncertainty, as a sure thing."-Robert Burns
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."-Albert Einstein
"Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons."-Bertrand Russell
"I want someone to quote me in their signature. That's why I'm a pandering whore."-CET
New blog entry- 11/03/08 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nimitz
Guest
Local time: 10:12 AM
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Now I'm asking for the evidence that would show that the God and evolution are contradictary...because although I believe in creation, I do not see evidence that says God could not have used evolution. The theory is that the Genesis account term :day" is meant for a loose interpretation...thus instead of 7 literal days, it's actually 7 ages of time...where God set things in motion and allowed them to evolve.
|
Then Genesis is a lie!
It doesn't matter if you take the 24 hours literal or not.
The story of Genesis is not compatable with the physical evidence of evolution.
The Garden of Eden is a lie.
Take the whole story and throw it out.
Adam and Eve are lies.
The serpent is a lie.
The tree of knowledge is a lie.
(and the foundation of this so called right and wrong that everyone has in their hearts i.e. XIAN MORALS)
Original sin is a lie.
The flaming sword is a lie.
Cain is a lie.
Able is a lie.
and so on.
All fairytales.
| Quote: | | Well actually, the idea of God would be contradictory if He was created. The only logical explanation, although hard to understand, is that God always existed, He is not bound to time. |
Naked assertion. You base this on what? Nothing.
| Quote: | | In order for God to be created would deny his ultimate authority which Webster defines as "Supreme." |
Appeal to authority. and a very weakass one too boot.
| Quote: | | How do you explain the existence of matter? Something cannot come out of nothing correct? We have seen this true in science, that matter can only be created from matter. So at some point matter had to come from somewhere...the evolutionary process had to begin at some point. How do you explain the beginning of matter and energy without a Creator? |
Same fundy bullshit that always leads to infinite regression.
/que the "turtles all the way down" picture!
Oh and it's 6 days of creation. Get your fables straight.
Last edited by Nimitz on Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
UnderGrace
Intern
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 98
Local time: 6:12 AM
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | nd you also said that we dont know the questions in life, this means that you dont know the answers either, yet you get your faith from a self contradicting book full of murder, rape and general unpleseantness that was written thousands of years ago and re written many times before you finally got to read it and you take the bits you agree with and ignore or explain away the bits you dont like untill you have your own vision of god
if you cant see the problem with that then i suppose its your imagination, if your happy with what you believe who am i to argue, all i know is there is no way you could possibly know what god is like or even if he exists |
One, there is proof that shows the Bible has not been rewritten. For example, we still have originals of the Pauline epistles. Many early scholars including Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Hermas, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Iranaeus, and Hippolytus, all agree that Paul wrote the epistle. These scholars are all from the 1st to 6th century. Even Marcion attributes authorship to Paul. So there is proof that Paul wrote it...then in the elventh century the Chester Beatty Papyrus manuscript that was dated to A.D. 200 was discovered, and was compared with the Great Unicals and they were identical even after centuries of copies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 6:12 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| UnderGrace wrote: | | One, I would like to know what the whole in my logic are exactly...because the idea I presented is actually agreed upon by many atheist scholars who say that it is the very reason why God does not exist. Two, you finally get it! You said we don't know the answer to some questions in life...that means you know that there ARE answers, and science cannot provide them |
Non sequitur.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 6:12 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| UnderGrace wrote: | | One, there is proof that shows the Bible has not been rewritten. |
Actually, we have several parts of books that don't show up in other copies. For instance, Mark originally ended at 16:8.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Raskolnikov
The Axe Murderer
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 2073
Local time: 5:12 PM
Location: Las Vegas
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| UnderGrace wrote: | | Raskolnikov wrote: | | UnderGrace wrote: | | Why can't evolution, considering that God used evolution for His own purposes, be present within a theistic view? Wouldn't this provide a better explanation for the beginning existence of matter and energy? |
1. When did God use evolution for his own Purposes? I dont see it anywhere in the Bible.
2. Evolution directly contradicts the creation of man as is presented in the Bible.
3. The only "evidence" you have of God existing at all is the Bible so to make a statement that is counter-intuitive to your only "evidence" is somewhat irrational. |
Careful not to take my position out of context. I was providing the position...One, not that I personally hold to it, and two, I'm not saying that God DID use evolution but instead proposing the possibility. Now I'm asking for the evidence that would show that the God and evolution are contradictary...because although I believe in creation, I do not see evidence that says God could not have used evolution. The theory is that the Genesis account term :day" is meant for a loose interpretation...thus instead of 7 literal days, it's actually 7 ages of time...where God set things in motion and allowed them to evolve.
| Quote: | | What explains god? Yes, god needs an explanation. No, god can't have always been. |
How do you explain the existence of matter? Something cannot come out of nothing correct? We have seen this true in science, that matter can only be created from matter. So at some point matter had to come from somewhere...the evolutionary process had to begin at some point. How do you explain the beginning of matter and energy without a Creator? |
I didn't take it out of context, you used an improper part of speech when you typed "considering" if you said "now let's assume" then I would have responded differently. The fact is Science gives a contradicting tale of creation than what is given in the Bible which IS THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE THAT SUGGESTS GOD EXISTS AT ALL. Are you saying that there are things missing in the Bible?
_________________
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
-Dr. Emmett Brown |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
UnderGrace
Intern
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 98
Local time: 6:12 AM
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nimitz...you need reread my other posts before you bring up old arguments that I've already addressed. Saying Genesis is a lie is only assuming the atheistic position...but not providing any evidence that it is not historically reliable. You're saying that Science contradicts creation...and I'm asking HOW. So far no one has provided physical evidence to show that the theory of evolution is incompatible with Creation, you've simply tried to use your own reasoning, assuming the atheistic position, to say that they can't co-exist. I'm not saying that anything is missing from the Bible...like any other document that is translated to a new language, it is hard to get every single word exact without reading it in it's original language...that's how languages work. There are words in English that have multiple meanings based on context which when translated to another language can be confusing. It's the same when we translate the Bible from Hebrew to English or Latin to English or Greek to English. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greyghost
Annoyingly Addicting
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 1254
Local time: 8:12 PM
Location: Earth, Milky way, Universe
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice job totally ignoring me UC, I just pointed out how you would be wrong, and you just brush it off, NICE!
_________________
"There is no such uncertainty, as a sure thing."-Robert Burns
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."-Albert Einstein
"Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons."-Bertrand Russell
"I want someone to quote me in their signature. That's why I'm a pandering whore."-CET
New blog entry- 11/03/08 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Live Video and Chat Room
Freethought Videos
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
