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UnderGrace
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 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: Does evolution mean no God? |
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| I'm just wondering, I've had a few people on the forums say that evolution = no god, does evolution really mean no god? Why can't evolution, considering that God used evolution for His own purposes, be present within a theistic view? Wouldn't this provide a better explanation for the beginning existence of matter and energy? |
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Nimitz
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| If so then the buy-bull is a lie! |
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RyanDzundza
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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dont roman catholics believe in evolution, according to julia sweeney in letting go of god, she was taught at her catholic high school that evolution was a mechanism put in place by god which eventually caused the evolution of the first two humans, Adam and Eve, even though adam and eve arent actually real
and when i was at catholic school my science classes were always seperate from religion and we were taught evolution as truth
so certain religious groups do teach evolution as truth and it doesnt necessarilly disprove god because they just say he create evolution with the intention of it leading to humanity, but then you have to ask questions like whats the point, why not miss out the middle man and go straight to humanity,
also isnt it men who are supposed to look after the animals of the planet, who would be looking after the animals before humans were around, it also looks like they were doing better off without us with the number of animals classed as at risk from extinction increasing all the time
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Moloth
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Does evolution mean no God? |
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| UnderGrace wrote: | | I'm just wondering, I've had a few people on the forums say that evolution = no god, does evolution really mean no god? Why can't evolution, considering that God used evolution for His own purposes, be present within a theistic view? Wouldn't this provide a better explanation for the beginning existence of matter and energy? |
technically, evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis.
however, as evolution is completely contrary to way that all of the major faiths of the world claim (and kill for) that life came to be, some see it as being a 'disproof' of "god". Some people, however, try to reconcile the two opposing viewpoints into a system that bastardizes both.
Xian: God created man from mud, fully formed into an adult body.
Evo: man arose naturally from earlier, more primitive forms.
bastard: god used evolution to 'make' man.
... so, then, what exactly did god do? why use evolution at all? he's GOD, why NOT just *zap* and then there's people?
either god is lazy/weak OR evolution would have weird, unexplainable directions (where god interfered).
only one of those three choices make any logical sense or have any evidence whatsoever.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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What explains god? Yes, god needs an explanation. No, god can't have always been.
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Raskolnikov
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Does evolution mean no God? |
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| UnderGrace wrote: | | Why can't evolution, considering that God used evolution for His own purposes, be present within a theistic view? Wouldn't this provide a better explanation for the beginning existence of matter and energy? |
1. When did God use evolution for his own Purposes? I dont see it anywhere in the Bible.
2. Evolution directly contradicts the creation of man as is presented in the Bible.
3. The only "evidence" you have of God existing at all is the Bible so to make a statement that is counter-intuitive to your only "evidence" is somewhat irrational.
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greyghost
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Does evolution mean no God? |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: |
2. Evolution directly contradicts the creation of man as is presented in the Bible. |
Heck, the bible itself contradicts the creation of man.
(Sorry, I couldn't stop myself here.)
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greyghost
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Does evolution mean no God? |
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| Moloth wrote: | | UnderGrace wrote: | | I'm just wondering, I've had a few people on the forums say that evolution = no god, does evolution really mean no god? Why can't evolution, considering that God used evolution for His own purposes, be present within a theistic view? Wouldn't this provide a better explanation for the beginning existence of matter and energy? |
technically, evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis.
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Technically moloth?
Abiogenesis is a completely separate theory, nothing technical about it.
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"There is no such uncertainty, as a sure thing."-Robert Burns
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."-Albert Einstein
"Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons."-Bertrand Russell
"I want someone to quote me in their signature. That's why I'm a pandering whore."-CET
New blog entry- 11/03/08 |
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UnderGrace
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: | | UnderGrace wrote: | | Why can't evolution, considering that God used evolution for His own purposes, be present within a theistic view? Wouldn't this provide a better explanation for the beginning existence of matter and energy? |
1. When did God use evolution for his own Purposes? I dont see it anywhere in the Bible.
2. Evolution directly contradicts the creation of man as is presented in the Bible.
3. The only "evidence" you have of God existing at all is the Bible so to make a statement that is counter-intuitive to your only "evidence" is somewhat irrational. |
Careful not to take my position out of context. I was providing the position...One, not that I personally hold to it, and two, I'm not saying that God DID use evolution but instead proposing the possibility. Now I'm asking for the evidence that would show that the God and evolution are contradictary...because although I believe in creation, I do not see evidence that says God could not have used evolution. The theory is that the Genesis account term :day" is meant for a loose interpretation...thus instead of 7 literal days, it's actually 7 ages of time...where God set things in motion and allowed them to evolve.
| Quote: | | What explains god? Yes, god needs an explanation. No, god can't have always been. |
How do you explain the existence of matter? Something cannot come out of nothing correct? We have seen this true in science, that matter can only be created from matter. So at some point matter had to come from somewhere...the evolutionary process had to begin at some point. How do you explain the beginning of matter and energy without a Creator? |
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RyanDzundza
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| UnderGrace wrote: |
How do you explain the existence of matter? Something cannot come out of nothing correct? We have seen this true in science, that matter can only be created from matter. So at some point matter had to come from somewhere...the evolutionary process had to begin at some point. How do you explain the beginning of matter and energy without a Creator? |
who created the creator, you cant say the universe cant have started from nothing and then say that god has always been around, the answer of 'godidit' creates more questions than it answers
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Moloth
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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absence of an answer to a question does not mean that whatever answer you pull out of your ass is automatically the right one.
we don;t know what happened 10-44 of a second after the big bang and before, but that does not mean whatever fruity, magical, illogical ideas YOU have are automatically the truth.
about evolution/god:
frankly, UG, i have no idea what your personal position is. i'm not a mind reader. i was simply stating what i thought about the different possibilities.
as i said, according to most religions out there, evolution is directly opposed to their beliefs:
| Quote: | | To undermine belief in the creation account in Genesis is to undermine the very foundations of the Christian faith. Evolutionary theory and the teachings of Christ are incompatible. Any attempt to marry these beliefs can only give birth to a weak faith that is prone to being “tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching.”—Ephesians 4:14. |
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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UnderGrace
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| RyanDzundza wrote: | | UnderGrace wrote: |
How do you explain the existence of matter? Something cannot come out of nothing correct? We have seen this true in science, that matter can only be created from matter. So at some point matter had to come from somewhere...the evolutionary process had to begin at some point. How do you explain the beginning of matter and energy without a Creator? |
who created the creator, you cant say the universe cant have started from nothing and then say that god has always been around, the answer of 'godidit' creates more questions than it answers |
Well actually, the idea of God would be contradictory if He was created. The only logical explanation, although hard to understand, is that God always existed, He is not bound to time. In order for God to be created would deny his ultimate authority which Webster defines as "Supreme." Therefore the concept of God requires that God was never created. |
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greyghost
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| UnderGrace wrote: | | RyanDzundza wrote: | | UnderGrace wrote: |
How do you explain the existence of matter? Something cannot come out of nothing correct? We have seen this true in science, that matter can only be created from matter. So at some point matter had to come from somewhere...the evolutionary process had to begin at some point. How do you explain the beginning of matter and energy without a Creator? |
who created the creator, you cant say the universe cant have started from nothing and then say that god has always been around, the answer of 'godidit' creates more questions than it answers |
Well actually, the idea of God would be contradictory if He was created. The only logical explanation, although hard to understand, is that God always existed, He is not bound to time. In order for God to be created would deny his ultimate authority which Webster defines as "Supreme." Therefore the concept of God requires that God was never created. |
How?
"God" could have easily been created by another, equally supreme, but absent god. Maybe Yahweh was born from "God most high" (Genesis 14), but then disappeared. This is what happens when you talk about things you can't prove, you create more questions then you have answered.
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"There is no such uncertainty, as a sure thing."-Robert Burns
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."-Albert Einstein
"Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons."-Bertrand Russell
"I want someone to quote me in their signature. That's why I'm a pandering whore."-CET
New blog entry- 11/03/08
Last edited by greyghost on Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| UnderGrace wrote: | | RyanDzundza wrote: | | UnderGrace wrote: |
How do you explain the existence of matter? Something cannot come out of nothing correct? We have seen this true in science, that matter can only be created from matter. So at some point matter had to come from somewhere...the evolutionary process had to begin at some point. How do you explain the beginning of matter and energy without a Creator? |
who created the creator, you cant say the universe cant have started from nothing and then say that god has always been around, the answer of 'godidit' creates more questions than it answers |
Well actually, the idea of God would be contradictory if He was created. The only logical explanation, although hard to understand, is that God always existed, He is not bound to time. In order for God to be created would deny his ultimate authority which Webster defines as "Supreme." Therefore the concept of God requires that God was never created. |
yes, its perfectly logical to suddenly create a concept that it is, in itself, completely illogical in order to make an illogical concept seem to make sense.
what the fuck does "not bound by time" even mean? can you explain that in a logical way that makes ANY sort of sense?
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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UnderGrace
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Quote:
To undermine belief in the creation account in Genesis is to undermine the very foundations of the Christian faith. Evolutionary theory and the teachings of Christ are incompatible. Any attempt to marry these beliefs can only give birth to a weak faith that is prone to being “tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching.”—Ephesians 4:14.
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I don't know who said this...but they are totally taking that scripture out of context lol...it's evident...there's nothing in that scripture that refers to evolution or the belief in evolution. Whoever said this must not have been aware of the seven-age creation theory. Throughout scripture when it refers to God creating...it never says specifically that it was 7 literal days of creation. |
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