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ShaSha
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 Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| twells2323 wrote: | | I don't remember anyone say that condoms are 100% effective against STD's. What we are saying is by wearing them doesn't increase your chance of getting an STD it decreases, unlike the pope who said it increases your chance. If people are going to have sex with their partners who have STD's, condoms are the best way to go to decrease the chance of getting infected. |
So you would have no problem with your mate pulling out a condom and saying we have to use this because I have an STD?
If the STD was there prior to becoming mates then you would hopefully know about it and of course agree. But if it is gotten after you have pledged monogamy then there is a greater problem here than the prevention of aides.
I just read about a gel that was being tried in Africa by woman whose man won't use condoms. The article didn't say that they were churchy or not.
So what about the partner that doesn't like condoms such as this African? What is going to stop aides in those cases? That question is for anybody, not you per se. |
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twells2323
Royal Citizen
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ShaSha wrote: | | twells2323 wrote: | | I don't remember anyone say that condoms are 100% effective against STD's. What we are saying is by wearing them doesn't increase your chance of getting an STD it decreases, unlike the pope who said it increases your chance. If people are going to have sex with their partners who have STD's, condoms are the best way to go to decrease the chance of getting infected. |
So you would have no problem with your mate pulling out a condom and saying we have to use this because I have an STD?
If the STD was there prior to becoming mates then you would hopefully know about it and of course agree. But if it is gotten after you have pledged monogamy then there is a greater problem here than the prevention of aides.
I just read about a gel that was being tried in Africa by woman whose man won't use condoms. The article didn't say that they were churchy or not.
So what about the partner that doesn't like condoms such as this African? What is going to stop aides in those cases? That question is for anybody, not you per se. |
Well I would hope my partner would tell me before hand that they have an STD before we had intercourse. As for as the African not liking to wear condoms it's up to the other party to say well no sex than.
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We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further - Richard Dawkins
If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein
The Government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion - John Adams |
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Kniva
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Ratzinger is a tard, i see no reason to seriously consider any of his thoughts as a reason for discussion. What he says is usually totally irresponsible and blatantly against the second vatican council, which he intends to abolish.
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LXA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Kniva wrote: | | Ratzinger is a tard, i see no reason to seriously consider any of his thoughts as a reason for discussion. What he says is usually totally irresponsible and blatantly against the second vatican council, which he intends to abolish. |
Theres like 6 Ratzingers...
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"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me."
-Emo Philips
"I have a two year old niece, and if I ever find it out of its cage, I wont think twice about delivering 2 rounds of 12 gauge slug."
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"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people"
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Kniva
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Who else? However.. he's the papa currently...
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chookrooter
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | If the STD was there prior to becoming mates then you would hopefully know about it and of course agree
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A person may be HIV positive and unaware.
It's not uncommon for the first symptoms of syphilis to be either missed or not occur. A woman may also have gonnhorea and be sympton free for some time some, unlike a male.
My perception is the criticism of the Pope is of his misinformation and fatuous moral stance,which lacks empathy and compassion,which are supposed to be two of his stronger traits.
As far as I'm aware,it's the medical consensus, [via organisations such as The World Health Organisation] that wide use of condoms DOES reduce STD's generally and the spread of HIV/AIDS. Your argument seems a bit vapid. |
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Kniva
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| chookrooter wrote: |
My perception is the criticism of the Pope is of his misinformation |
I really doubt that he is misinformed in any way. |
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Veiniac
Hilarious and erotic... a very sexy mix.
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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People who listen to the Pope and die of AIDS should get the Darwin Award! 
Everyone who listens to the Pope's lies and hatred on this issue will die out eventually, then he'll have no followers and we'll never have to be bothered by anything the hate filled little Nazi says ever again!
Whoooh! Fuck the Pope! |
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Kniva
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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That really isn't funny given the influence the catholic church has on Africa.
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SalsaShark
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Alternative look - drawn using the same four facts:
If the Pope advocated condom use, not only would less people die, but specifically less Catholics would die. Furthermore, since AIDS related deaths would dramatically increase, many more people will turn to Catholicism as it would seem to be doing them a great service. Hence, the Catholic Church's influence and dominance in Africa - a continent wrought with war, famine, poverty, etc... - would increase. The Pope not wanting to send Condom's to Africa should be seen as an advantage to secular organizations, NGOs and the like, to lay some solid secular groundwork, combating the destructive impact the Catholic Church has had on the entire continent.
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Kniva
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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It sure is a propagandistic advantage, but not in total. The effect on the allready low level of enlightenment in Africa is too big, it'd have to be a priority to destroy every last bit of roman catholic influence on Africa as soon as possible, if there would be any particular policy undertaken by any alliance or state.
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divinus_fortuna
BANNED - Sock Puppet
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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It is outrageous that all these religious organizations went to Africa just to rob them blind and push all the bullshit they have to sell...
I wish someone over there wakes up and realizes they had a rich culture before all these organizations came to "save them".
Some of you say they are promiscuous ... but who are we to judge? It has been proven that human monogamy is a conscious choice and not natural predisposition.
I say make condoms available and educate how to stay safe... I dont think it is anybody's business how much "fun" they are having
Pope certainly should not be an authority on science, medicine or condoms.. |
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chookrooter
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Kniva wrote: | | chookrooter wrote: |
My perception is the criticism of the Pope is of his misinformation |
I really doubt that he is misinformed in any way. |
Sorry, I meant the lies he's spreading. I guess it's more a matter of intentional disinformation
I feel almost sorry for those Catholics who thought "Oh, well the next one won't be the reactionary arsehole John Paul 2 was" Rattinger isn't,he's fucking worse..
I think his last post before becoming Pope may have been a hint;IE He was head of "The Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith"--Until the C19th, it was known as " The Holy Office Of The Inquisition". I kid you not. |
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SirThinkALot
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Joined: 25 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| divinus_fortuna wrote: | Some of you say they are promiscuous ... but who are we to judge? It has been proven that human monogamy is a conscious choice and not natural predisposition.
I say make condoms available and educate how to stay safe... I dont think it is anybody's business how much "fun" they are having |
I'm not normally one to tell people if they're having too much sex....unless their actions are spreading deadly diseases, as is the case in Africa. Condoms alone wont do much(if any) good unless we also push to reduce the promiscuity that spreads AIDS(especially among people who know they are infected).
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GodsTwin
For ages 8 and under.
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| SirThinkALot wrote: | | divinus_fortuna wrote: | Some of you say they are promiscuous ... but who are we to judge? It has been proven that human monogamy is a conscious choice and not natural predisposition.
I say make condoms available and educate how to stay safe... I dont think it is anybody's business how much "fun" they are having |
I'm not normally one to tell people if they're having too much sex....unless their actions are spreading deadly diseases, as is the case in Africa. Condoms alone wont do much(if any) good unless we also push to reduce the promiscuity that spreads AIDS(especially among people who know they are infected). |
Oh I beg to differ:
| GodsTwin wrote: | | SirThinkALot wrote: | | twells2323 wrote: | | I don't remember anyone say that condoms are 100% effective against STD's. What we are saying is by wearing them doesn't increase your chance of getting an STD it decreases, unlike the pope who said it increases your chance. If people are going to have sex with their partners who have STD's, condoms are the best way to go to decrease the chance of getting infected. |
I may be misreading this, but I dont think he's saying that condoms increase your chance of getting an STD. Hes saying that condoms give you a sense of false security, and as a result you have sex more. Thus, while your chances of catching something at each indvidual encounter goes down your overall chance of catching something stays the same, or possibly goes up(depending on how much more sex you have due to that false sense of security, and whether or not you use condoms consistantly and correctly).
On that I agree with him, but I dont think that means condoms wont help if used as part of a broader solution, which includes education about the risks of sex even with condoms and a general encouragement of promiscuity |
| Quote: | | A study done in Thailand showed that condom breakage leading to exposure to body fluids during sex occurred 1.8 percent of the time when one condom was used and only 0.2 percent of the time when two condoms were used. |
Even if it gives you a sense of false security and you end up having sex more the probability of contracting aids due to the increased individual encounters would not add up.
The transfer of body fluids during protected sex occurred 1.8 percent of the time. With unprotected sex it occurs 100% of the time.
Here lets look at this mathematically.
Now in the US, If the probability of being infected in a single exposure is p = 1/1000, the probability of being infected in n exposures is given by the binomial: P(n) = 1 - (1-p)^n in our case, if n were 1000, the probability of being infected in 1000 exposures is aprox 63% ( P(1000) = 0.6323).
With protected sex the probability of being infected in a single exposure is p = 1/1000 * .018 (due to the condom) = .000018. Even if the sexual encounters increase 10-fold (n=10,000) the probability of contracting aids (P(10,000)=.1647) = 16.47%.
I'm sorry, you have not convinced me. |
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| Moloth wrote: | | To say "Well, scientists don't know X, therefore GOD", is a logical fallacy called "Argument from Ignorance". Just because we don't know the answer to something, doesn't mean whatever you've made up is automatically the answer. To assume anything, in lieu of facts, is ignorant, gullible and illogical. |
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