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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| baddogma wrote: | I don't buy it. That would by definition be infinity. Too many alternate outcomes. Some so close you just blinked at different times, others where Dinosaurs exist....others where life never took off.
Too much to wrap my pea brain around. |
Yup, a nearly infinite number of universes are split into being every second. I tried suggesting that to some friends when I was in 5th grade. They rolled their eyes and said "whatever". 
NOW we see that they were in fact JEALOUS of my intellect! j/k It felt good for a second though. 
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The Spiritual Atheist
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | i buy it.
for every possibility per every Planck second the universe has ever existed, there is an alternate universe out there. an infinitely branching out of possible outcomes... and the farther you go from 'prime', the more fucked up things get, until the you start getting to universes who's natural laws are so unstable that they collapse.
i LOVE this stuff. |
Red Dwarf. There's an episode where Rimmer sees how many of his "alternate" Rimmers have died being the hero Rimmer character. I won't give it away, but needless to say that it's a mantle and legacy that no one would be able to easily turn down when you see how vast the number of previous hero Rimmers are.
 Red Dwarf
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | I was going to post in this thread, but then I didn't. |
You ARE Schroedinger's cat! 
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | | I was going to post in this thread, but then I didn't. |
You ARE Schroedinger's cat! |
I was hoping somebody would catch that.  |
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Paranoia21
Weird Fish
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm...I'm still a little skeptical about this. If there were parallel universes, that would mean that every single move, which includes the millions, if not billions, of vibrations that every single atom in this universe is making at this second, are basically replayed but in a different way in a different universe. Hmm.
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Moloth
Fateless
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Paranoia21 wrote: | | Hmm...I'm still a little skeptical about this. If there were parallel universes, that would mean that every single move, which includes the millions, if not billions, of vibrations that every single atom in this universe is making at this second, are basically replayed but in a different way in a different universe. Hmm. |
pretty much. Quantum experiments strongly suggest just that!
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caseagainstfaith
God's gift to atheism
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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I have certainly heard this before, and it is a popular theme in Star Trek and other SciFi. And, given that I just barely finished my physics requirements I'm certainly in no position to make any sort of authoritative response. All I can say is, it doesn't make sense to me. For what I am doing now, this second, is because of what I did in previous seconds. Like there was an example of a guy on a motorcycle getting hit in one universe, but not in another. If you had two universes, everything the same up to that moment, like the positions and velocities of the car and the motorcyle, how could he be hit in one and not in the other? It doesn't make sense to me.
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Moloth
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| caseagainstfaith wrote: | | I have certainly heard this before, and it is a popular theme in Star Trek and other SciFi. And, given that I just barely finished my physics requirements I'm certainly in no position to make any sort of authoritative response. All I can say is, it doesn't make sense to me. For what I am doing now, this second, is because of what I did in previous seconds. Like there was an example of a guy on a motorcycle getting hit in one universe, but not in another. If you had two universes, everything the same up to that moment, like the positions and velocities of the car and the motorcyle, how could he be hit in one and not in the other? It doesn't make sense to me. |
then you haven;t gotten to Heisenberg yet.
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caseagainstfaith
God's gift to atheism
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: |
then you haven;t gotten to Heisenberg yet. |
Well, like I said, I confess totally to not understanding much physics. I did read some of Bryan Greene, though, most of it went in one ear and out the other. But, to my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) but that Heisenberg could be interpreted from a deterministic point of view (prior to the discovery of QM) and in a non-deterministic way. In other words, if QM wasn't true, Heisenberg might simply mean that we can't know precisely a particles exact speed and location -- but that it would still have one. We wouldn't know what it is, but it would have an exact speed and location. So, in this view, I'd still be right, a the motorcycle would have an exact location, and the car would have an exact location. And if you had a duplicate universe up to 5 seconds before the accident, then you'd still have an identical universe afterwards.
Okay, so now, when you throw in QM, then Heisenberg takes on an entirely different meaning -- that particles literally have no exact position, merely probabilities of being found in various positions. But that all particles actually exist simultaneously everywhere in the universe, just with very low degree of probability of finding them very far away from their apparant position. And so that while QM does wind up being very important in many physics related issues. But, to most macroscopic issues, the QM effects cancel out. I *could* walk through the front door without opening it and without damage to either it or me, its just so extremely unlikely as to be, for all practical purposes, impossible.
Am I roughly on track? If I'm even close to on track, well, I don't see how QM can make it so that if I'm in a car going such and such trajectory and a motorcycle is going some intersecting trajectory and yet sometimes collide and sometimes not.
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Moloth
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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O_O.. yeah, actually thats about it, Case.
"If I'm even close to on track, well, I don't see how QM can make it so that if I'm in a car going such and such trajectory and a motorcycle is going some intersecting trajectory and yet sometimes collide and sometimes not."
well, just think of all of the little random things that happen between and during such an event... the change of energy or property of a particle can cascade into macro effects.
Think back to Schroedinger and his cat-box. there is only a CHANCE that a nuclear particle will decay in any given second. as far as we can tell, it random... but based on a percentage. In a very real sense, atoms themselves are just little bundles of properties and probabilities.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | CET wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | | I was going to post in this thread, but then I didn't. |
You ARE Schroedinger's cat! |
I was hoping somebody would catch that. |
I thought I was in a super position, so I checked. It turned out that I wasn't.
*sigh*
Jokes that I can only tell to a few people, because 95% of the population will just look at me blankly.
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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baddogma
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I think as we learn more this will seem less likely.
It REEKS of bullshit to me....but wtf do I know.
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Moloth
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| baddogma wrote: | I think as we learn more this will seem less likely.
It REEKS of bullshit to me....but wtf do I know. |
just... keep in mind that the Universe IS a very strange place. and when talking about sub-atomic scales, we're delving into scales and regions where 'man was not meant to go'... we have no real-world experience with these sorts of topics and phenomenon. Thats why i try to stick to EXPERIMENTAL outcomes and real science. its really easy to start getting all New Agey with some of the Quantum concepts.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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baddogma
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Where do these supposed Universes exist? in the same "space" as us? or outside OUR universe?
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| baddogma wrote: | | Where do these supposed Universes exist? in the same "space" as us? or outside OUR universe? |
No, no. More abstract than that... In "theory".  |
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