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Raskolnikov
The Axe Murderer
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 Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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So I was watching youtube and saw another omnipotence paradox that I thought should be used to revive this thread again.
If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself?
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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4671
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: | So I was watching youtube and saw another omnipotence paradox that I thought should be used to revive this thread again.
If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself? |
If God is omniscient, He knows what it is to make a more powerful being then himself and then commit suicide.
Great God is dead anyway. No heaven or hell without God. By definition and logical fact.
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A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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Philosophos
Do it
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: | | If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself? |
No.
And no, that doesn't make him not omnipotent.
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Local time: 11:46 AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Raskolnikov wrote: | | If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself? |
No.
And no, that doesn't make him not omnipotent. |
How do you figure that?
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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Philosophos
Do it
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| munky99999 wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | Raskolnikov wrote: | | If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself? |
No.
And no, that doesn't make him not omnipotent. |
How do you figure that? |
Because omnipotent means "most powerful" by defintion. It's like asking what's north of the north pole.
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4671
Local time: 11:46 AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | munky99999 wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | Raskolnikov wrote: | | If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself? |
No.
And no, that doesn't make him not omnipotent. |
How do you figure that? |
Because omnipotent means "most powerful" by defintion. It's like asking what's north of the north pole. |
No it means ALL powerful. Meaning you can do even the illogical. Which yes God being omnipotent can point north of the north pole, draw me that square circle, and design a more powerful then all powerful being.
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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Philosophos
Do it
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| munky99999 wrote: | | No it means ALL powerful. Meaning you can do even the illogical. |
I'd take the time to counter that if I were dealing with another poster. But I'm not. So I won't.
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4671
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | munky99999 wrote: | | No it means ALL powerful. Meaning you can do even the illogical. |
I'd take the time to counter that if I were dealing with another poster. But I'm not. So I won't. |
In reality you know you are wrong and cannot argue with it.
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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Shiranu
WTF IS ME?!?!!!111!!
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Omnipotent \Om*nip"o*tent\, a. [F., fr.L. omnipotens, -entis; omnis all + potens powerful, potent. See Potent.]
1. Able in every respect and for every work; unlimited in ability; all-powerful; almighty; as, the Being that can create worlds must be omnipotent.
All powerful, not most. Sorry  .
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"I Cant Pass Up This Opportunity To Make Myself Observed, I Cant Pass Up This Opportunity To Let Myself Be Heard..." - Seether, Out Of My Way
"Hold me now I need to feel complete...Like I matter to the one I need...I'm so afraid of the gift you give me...I don't belong here and I'm not well. I'm so ashamed of the lie I'm living, i'm right on the wrong side of it all...and I so ashamed of this...yes I am so ashamed of me" Seether - The Gift |
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Philosophos
Do it
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Shiranu wrote: | Omnipotent \Om*nip"o*tent\, a. [F., fr.L. omnipotens, -entis; omnis all + potens powerful, potent. See Potent.]
1. Able in every respect and for every work; unlimited in ability; all-powerful; almighty; as, the Being that can create worlds must be omnipotent.
All powerful, not most. Sorry . |
So an omnipotent being is not the most powerful being possible?
It's starting to come back to me why I didn't bother addressing the OP when this was first posted... 
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4671
Local time: 11:46 AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Shiranu wrote: | Omnipotent \Om*nip"o*tent\, a. [F., fr.L. omnipotens, -entis; omnis all + potens powerful, potent. See Potent.]
1. Able in every respect and for every work; unlimited in ability; all-powerful; almighty; as, the Being that can create worlds must be omnipotent.
All powerful, not most. Sorry . |
So an omnipotent being is not the most powerful being possible?
It's starting to come back to me why I didn't bother addressing the OP when this was first posted... |
It's called being illogical. Which isn't a limit for omnipotence. Which I'm pretty sure you agree with that.
YEs omnipotence would suggest he is the MOST powerful or at least on par with any other omnipotent being. However being able to do the illogical is a verified first point. So yes by definition he can do the illogical of creating that more powerful.
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
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Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: | So I was watching youtube and saw another omnipotence paradox that I thought should be used to revive this thread again.
If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself? |
As a figment of the imagination, God can do anything, blah, blah, blah... |
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Raskolnikov
The Axe Murderer
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 1884
Local time: 9:46 AM
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | Raskolnikov wrote: | So I was watching youtube and saw another omnipotence paradox that I thought should be used to revive this thread again.
If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself? |
As a figment of the imagination, God can do anything, blah, blah, blah... |
It's making theists admit he's an imaginary thing is the hard part.
_________________
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
-Dr. Emmett Brown |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 11:46 AM
Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Raskolnikov wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: | | Raskolnikov wrote: | So I was watching youtube and saw another omnipotence paradox that I thought should be used to revive this thread again.
If God is omnipotent, can He make a being more powerful than Himself? |
As a figment of the imagination, God can do anything, blah, blah, blah... |
It's making theists admit he's an imaginary thing is the hard part. |
And that's the way to counter-argue with a theist: see, God can create a being more powerful than Himself AND then by his omni-power, becomes that more powerful being.
My imagination is more powerful than yours...  |
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Unbeliever
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| munky99999 wrote: | | Great God is dead anyway. |
Fictional characters can't die, unless perhaps in the fictional story of which they're a part. Is Superman dead, or Mighty Mouse? Of course not, since they were never alive to begin with!
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"True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance."
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Faith is the rocks below.
God Not Found - resources for atheist/agnostics
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