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baddogma
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Moloth
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 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: |
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...sez the white dude.. lol..
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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josephpalazzo
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Paranoia21 wrote: | | I, along with the rest of you, cannot just simply choose to believe in something without proof. I cannot have faith. I guess this is the reason why I am always so interested in why theists believe what they believe. I would almost love to be an ignorant Chistian at times. |
But you do have beliefs: believing in something without proof is a belief in itself...  |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | Paranoia21 wrote: | | I, along with the rest of you, cannot just simply choose to believe in something without proof. I cannot have faith. I guess this is the reason why I am always so interested in why theists believe what they believe. I would almost love to be an ignorant Chistian at times. |
But you do have beliefs: believing in something without proof is a belief in itself... |
er.. wut?
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baddogma
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | Paranoia21 wrote: | | I, along with the rest of you, cannot just simply choose to believe in something without proof. I cannot have faith. I guess this is the reason why I am always so interested in why theists believe what they believe. I would almost love to be an ignorant Chistian at times. |
But you do have beliefs: believing in something without proof is a belief in itself... |
Belief has to be a positive assertion. You can't have a belief in a negative, you can only lack belief.
It is incorrect to say...I believe there are/is no_________ . (Though everyone does).
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josephpalazzo
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: | | Paranoia21 wrote: | | I, along with the rest of you, cannot just simply choose to believe in something without proof. I cannot have faith. I guess this is the reason why I am always so interested in why theists believe what they believe. I would almost love to be an ignorant Chistian at times. |
But you do have beliefs: believing in something without proof is a belief in itself... |
er.. wut? |
what? |
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| baddogma wrote: | | Belief has to be a positive assertion. You can't have a belief in a negative, you can only lack belief. |
Then you are an agnostic, by definition. Why? Because to have knowledge requires at least the following 3 things: 1) Justification, 2) Truth, 3) Belief.
As you claim that you "lack belief" in a God, you don't know whether there's a God or not. So you are not an atheist.
QED.
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josephpalazzo
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| baddogma wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: | | Paranoia21 wrote: | | I, along with the rest of you, cannot just simply choose to believe in something without proof. I cannot have faith. I guess this is the reason why I am always so interested in why theists believe what they believe. I would almost love to be an ignorant Chistian at times. |
But you do have beliefs: believing in something without proof is a belief in itself... |
Belief has to be a positive assertion. You can't have a belief in a negative, you can only lack belief.
It is incorrect to say...I believe there are/is no_________ . (Though everyone does). |
OOPs, that should read:
But you do have beliefs: I, along with the rest of you, cannot just simply choose to believe in something without proof is a belief in itself...
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Paranoia21
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: |
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How is that a belief in itself? I am just saying I cannot believe in something without proof. I cannot.
By the way, I am celebrating my new rise as Forum Leader!
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kmisho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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pallazzo is right, but it's not an issue of believing or not believing. It's an issue of why you believe what you do.
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Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
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josephpalazzo
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Paranoia21 wrote: | How is that a belief in itself? I am just saying I cannot believe in something without proof. I cannot.
By the way, I am celebrating my new rise as Forum Leader! |
Congrats on being a forum leader...
When you say: I am just saying I cannot believe in something without proof -- you have a belief in that statement, otherwise you wouldn't say it, or if you did without belief, you would be hypocritical/cynical/lier.
Last edited by josephpalazzo on Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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baddogma
antitheist
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | baddogma wrote: | | Belief has to be a positive assertion. You can't have a belief in a negative, you can only lack belief. |
Then you are an agnostic, by definition. Why? Because to have knowledge requires at least the following 3 things: 1) Justification, 2) Truth, 3) Belief.
As you claim that you "lack belief" in a God, you don't know whether there's a God or not. So you are not an atheist.
QED. |
What does belief have to do with knowledge? You can believe without knowledge.
I am an atheist because I have no belief. Gnosticism has to do with knowledge not belief.
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Isambard
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Oh, I finally get the Bible! |
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| Zocrates wrote: | The bible (and every other religious book for that matter) is like a book telling you if you stand on your head long enough, you'll get rich. Atheists read this book and we may even stand on our heads for a second, but after 1.1 seconds, we realize its bullshit. Christians read it and when they don't get rich, they think it's something they're doing wrong, so they stand on their heads even longer. Meanwhile, no one has actually seen anyone profit from this "get rich" method, but 90% of the population continues to stand on their head anyway.  |
Some of the Vedas, Prose Eddea, Certain OT books, Certain Gospels etc. Dont follow your thesis. They either fall under 'history', poetry, 'science' or a combo of all of them.
As to the convo about religious folk being ore happy, I would agree. Religion gives a sense of value and purpose to mroe than an individual which makes one feel part of a collective.
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Composite things are like dreams. Fantasies. Bubbles. Thoughts. Like a dewdrop and a flash of lightning. A new dress and a burning tire. Waves of sand and sinking ships. The shadow of a statue, and an entry in a diary. A brain tumor and an ice cream sundae. We are thus to be recorded. |
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Paranoia21
Weird Fish
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | Paranoia21 wrote: | How is that a belief in itself? I am just saying I cannot believe in something without proof. I cannot.
By the way, I am celebrating my new rise as Forum Leader! |
Congrats on being a forum leader...
When you say: I am just saying I cannot believe in something without proof -- you have a belief in that statement, otherwise you wouldn't say it, or if you did without belief, you would be hypocritical/cynical/lier. |
So then can you define an atheist for me? If you think that everyone has a belief, then how do atheists exist?
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VERITAS OMNIA VINCIT
Keep YOUR religion in YOUR churches and YOUR homes and out of OUR government. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
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Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| baddogma wrote: |
What does belief have to do with knowledge? You can believe without knowledge.
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The statement: You can believe without knowledge, is a belief. You believe in that statement, and you need no proof to say it, even if you don't know that it is a belief to say (that statement). |
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