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Moloth
Fateless
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 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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For some us, what we'd 'rather' want is inconsequential.
I learned a long, long time ago that my philosophical stance is not of choice. I could not choose to believe. it would be like trying to force a river to flow backwards, or to stem the tide. I am simply unable to let go of logic, reason and scientific, rational thought.
Sometimes, i wonder what its like to be an adult and still believe in magic, in miracles, in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.
That is why i interrogate theists, as long as they answer truthfully. i want to know HOW they can possibly believe what they do; how they deal with the cognitive dissonance.
Yes, the Believer is Happy and the Skeptic is Wise... and sometimes, occasionally, i wonder what it would have been like to have a choice between the two.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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baddogma
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the Believer is Happy and the Skeptic is Wise... and sometimes, occasionally, i wonder what it would have been like to have a choice between the two. |
I'M HAPPY WITH MY WISDOM!
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Moloth
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Oh, as am I.
But i still wonder what it would have been like to at least have the CHOICE... ya know?
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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rickcopeland648
The Phantom Teabagger
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | Sorry to disappoint The Rick Copeland, but her husband died in 2002. Anne returned (not converted, my mistake) to RC in 1998. |
You dare to contradict The Rick Copeland? Ok, so he's wrong again. Not being an Anne Rice scholar (or even a fan. He wasn't too fond of the novel he read) he wasn't sure when Stan died, simply that he croaked...
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | For some us, what we'd 'rather' want is inconsequential.
I learned a long, long time ago that my philosophical stance is not of choice. I could not choose to believe. it would be like trying to force a river to flow backwards, or to stem the tide. I am simply unable to let go of logic, reason and scientific, rational thought. |
Nor can I. Hence my strong atheism. But I'd rather live in a world where there was a loving God (this most likely excludes most interpretations of the Judeo-Christian God, to be sure).
But if I could choose between happiness and "wisdom," I'd choose happiness without a doubt.
(Well, unless we get into a discussion about the kinds of happiness, and whether they one would be truly happy under them: a good example is the "eternal ecstasy machine" often brought up in some kinds of philosophical discourse. How long can one experience, say, a sustained orgasm, without getting bored with it after a while? This kind of inquiry can easily lead one to a Nietzschian conclusion that finality may in fact be part of pleasure.)
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baddogma
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | Oh, as am I.
But i still wonder what it would have been like to at least have the CHOICE... ya know? |
I know exactly how you feel, I argue with some theists all the time that I can not DECIDE to believe in something. I look at the evidence and go with the logical answers. They say "but you DECIDED what you believe". NO!
I can't DECIDE to believe unicorns exist. Show me one! I am NOT ignoring my god belief so I can do what ever I want and not be responsible for my actions. Just because I'm not afraid sky daddy is going to punish me doesn't mean I have no obligations to others. I don't base my world view off of a FEEEELING, I base it off reality, and reality is what is left when there is no one left to believe.
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Moloth
Fateless
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | For some us, what we'd 'rather' want is inconsequential.
I learned a long, long time ago that my philosophical stance is not of choice. I could not choose to believe. it would be like trying to force a river to flow backwards, or to stem the tide. I am simply unable to let go of logic, reason and scientific, rational thought. |
Nor can I. Hence my strong atheism. But I'd rather live in a world where there was a loving God (this most likely excludes most interpretations of the Judeo-Christian God, to be sure).
But if I could choose between happiness and "wisdom," I'd choose happiness without a doubt. |
the best we can do is strain whatever happiness we can from what we have. And, perhaps, the occasional distraction.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: |
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No argument from me there. And the best reason to search for truth is that it helps one avoid unpleasant circumstances, leading to greater happiness. But in and of itself, I don't think knowing the truth has any intrinsic value.
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Moloth
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | No argument from me there. And the best reason to search for truth is that it helps one avoid unpleasant circumstances, leading to greater happiness. But in and of itself, I don't think knowing the truth has any intrinsic value. |
i suppose its whats done with the truth... and if you can handle it.
For some, ignorance and happy delusion is only thing keeping them sane, i suppose.
There are, no doubt, truths about the universe now that would drive any one of us insane.
Cthulhu aside, Quantum Mechanics gets kinda close... who knows what other weirdness we'll find?
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12261-is-dark-energy-lurking-in-hidden-spatial-dimensions.html
Perhaps knowledge of the truth is like money... its not so much a means to happiness, but it can remove things that cause UNhappiness (hunger, etc.)
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baddogma
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps knowledge of the truth is like money... its not so much a means to happiness, but it can remove things that cause UNhappiness (hunger, etc.) |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| The thing is: I don't believe in happiness. There are happy moments, and sad ones, and frustrating ones, etc. But happiness, as a permanent state, is equivalent to heaven, paradise... an illusive state that doesn't exist anywhere except in our imagination. |
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Right - there are no "happy" people. What I was getting at was how to increase the amount or quality of one's contentment in life.
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Right - there are no "happy" people. What I was getting at was how to increase the amount or quality of one's contentment in life. |
Too much contentment can get you bored out of your wits...
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Moloth
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Things that make me 'happy'.
money = comfort in knowing that i needn't worry about it. i can pay my bills, buy the food i want, pay for shelter, transportation and clothing, travel to and see the things i want and enjoy the entertainment i like.
friends = people who's company i enjoy and can share common interests with.
love = being in a relationship with someone who is like a friend,but so much more. a real partner and best friend you can have sexy time with and be vulnerable with in a way you can't with regular friends.
my happiness is mostly 'lack of worry'. the other part would be success and recognition in my chosen field of concentration.
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
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Paranoia21
Weird Fish
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Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: |
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I, along with the rest of you, cannot just simply choose to believe in something without proof. I cannot have faith. I guess this is the reason why I am always so interested in why theists believe what they believe. I would almost love to be an ignorant Chistian at times.
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