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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: No ice at the North Pole |
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It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.
The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.
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Vyrian
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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And yet there will still be disbelievers.
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pr126
resident misanthrope
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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There is no doubt of a significant change in climate.
The question is, are humans entirely responsible, and specifically, the western industrial pollution which started a mere 200 years ago.
I remain sceptical on the actual cause that the politicians and the media keeps reporting, while acknowledging the veracity of the climate change.
The destruction of the ecology is of course entirely a human cause such as deforestation, pollution of rivers, desertification, destruction of animal habitats.
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"Orwell was a visionary. He just got the date wrong." |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Surprisingly, there are so many anti-science nutjobs on this AF. A creationist would feel right at home... |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| pr126 wrote: | There is no doubt of a significant change in climate.
The question is, are humans entirely responsible, and specifically, the western industrial pollution which started a mere 200 years ago.
I remain sceptical on the actual cause that the politicians and the media keeps reporting, while acknowledging the veracity of the climate change.
The destruction of the ecology is of course entirely a human cause such as deforestation, pollution of rivers, desertification, destruction of animal habitats. |
BTW, the "reporting" is not from politicians and the media, but by the highest level of scientists in the field. The politicians and the media have jumped on the wagon only recently... |
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xena
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Won't that result in further devastating floods of most the world and then perhaps an ice age very soon?
or have I been watching too many films? |
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xena
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josephpalazzo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| xena wrote: | Won't that result in further devastating floods of most the world and then perhaps an ice age very soon?
or have I been watching too many films? |
There are studies that show the possibility that global warming might weaken the Gulf Stream, which provides all of Europe and the UK milder temperature. Such disruption, in an extreme case, could trigger an ice age. Climate is like a beast, at which we are poking sticks, and the outcome could well surprise us. |
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VinceNoir
Nihilistic Tendencies
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| pr126 wrote: | There is no doubt of a significant change in climate.
The question is, are humans entirely responsible, and specifically, the western industrial pollution which started a mere 200 years ago. |
Ahhh there IS climate change but it's not our fault. Great stuff. Quickly! Burn more things it was going to happen anyway!
In the mean time I'm buying a house boat.
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Kindly stick your Quran/Bible/Torah up your holier-than-thou arsehole you square. |
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Noggin
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I don't see what the big deal is over changes in our world. It's going to evolve, whether we like it or not. Should we exterminate a couple billion people to thin the heard?
With the explosion in population over the past 50 years:
I think the earth is handling our expansion fairly well. It could be much worse, but I don't think it could be exponentially better like the global-warming crowd would have us believe.
Off-topic, looking at this graph, could you imagine a whole world with only ~900-1000 million people just 100 years ago? Seems unthinkable that there were that few people.
-Noggin |
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josephpalazzo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Noggin wrote: | I don't see what the big deal is over changes in our world. It's going to evolve, whether we like it or not. Should we exterminate a couple billion people to thin the heard?
With the explosion in population over the past 50 years:
I think the earth is handling our expansion fairly well. It could be much worse, but I don't think it could be exponentially better like the global-warming crowd would have us believe.
Off-topic, looking at this graph, could you imagine a whole world with only ~900-1000 million people just 100 years ago? Seems unthinkable that there were that few people.
-Noggin |
Sure, the earth will take care of itself. But we have to take care of ourselves, and drastic weather changes are unlikely to be in our favor, notwithstanding the millions of refugees in coastal areas that will entail.. |
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| VinceNoir wrote: | | pr126 wrote: | There is no doubt of a significant change in climate.
The question is, are humans entirely responsible, and specifically, the western industrial pollution which started a mere 200 years ago. |
Ahhh there IS climate change but it's not our fault. Great stuff. Quickly! Burn more things it was going to happen anyway!
In the mean time I'm buying a house boat. |
house boat?
Water levels will go down if ice melts. The great lakes water levels have gone significantly in the passed 5 years.
The reality is yes there's global warming. The doomsday people simply have no causal link between CO2 and global warming. Same with methane.
Not to mention the fact that fossil fuels are less likely to be at fault.
Deforestation, population boom and food source boom is likely to be at fault. Humans, cattle, chickens, and JP breath and fart more greenhouse gases then what is coming from cars.
Good news! Mercedes will be going 100% green soon. They wont be coming out with gas powered vehicles anymore.
Pure electric smart car is planned for 2010 apparently. If insurance isnt absolutely nuts I'm so buying one of the first ones.
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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eximius
Phantom Rasperry Blower
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Humans aren't entirely responsible entirely for global warming, but we have drastically changed the climate cycle of earth. Global temperatures vary over centuries for example the warm medieval period. But there has been an evident change in global temperatures since the beginning of the industrial revolution. The change is so drastic it must be caused by something that has been introduced into the atmosphere, emissions from human activity. It is the only explanation at this time. Records of global temperatures can be traced back over thousands of years with ice samples and never before has there been such a drastic and sudden increase in temperatures.
We're fucking up the planet.
This graph clearly shows that there is a correlation between CO2 levels and temperatures:
And anyway, even if all the data and the vast majority of scientists are incorrect. Isn't it best to be safe than sorry. Plus eventually we will have to ween ourselves off fossil fuels as they will eventually run out.
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eximius
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| munky99999 wrote: | | VinceNoir wrote: | | pr126 wrote: | There is no doubt of a significant change in climate.
The question is, are humans entirely responsible, and specifically, the western industrial pollution which started a mere 200 years ago. |
Ahhh there IS climate change but it's not our fault. Great stuff. Quickly! Burn more things it was going to happen anyway!
In the mean time I'm buying a house boat. |
house boat?
Water levels will go down if ice melts. The great lakes water levels have gone significantly in the passed 5 years.
The reality is yes there's global warming. The doomsday people simply have no causal link between CO2 and global warming. Same with methane.
Not to mention the fact that fossil fuels are less likely to be at fault.
Deforestation, population boom and food source boom is likely to be at fault. Humans, cattle, chickens, and JP breath and fart more greenhouse gases then what is coming from cars.
Good news! Mercedes will be going 100% green soon. They wont be coming out with gas powered vehicles anymore.
Pure electric smart car is planned for 2010 apparently. If insurance isnt absolutely nuts I'm so buying one of the first ones. |
House boat
Water based ice does not affect water levels as ice displaces the same amount of water as it contains. But land based ice melting such as in Antarctica will cause water levels to rise.
See the graph in my other post.
Deforestation is a major problem granted. But to say that humans, cattle, chickens and JP breath and fart more greenhouse gases than cars produce is ridiculous. Your right in saying that cattle contribute to global warming but nowhere near as much as cars. And humans even as a species produce very little CO2 on a global scale. I read a good article about this last week, I'll try and find a link.
Cool 
And with the electric car, it's only green if the energy to power it is produces in an eco-friendly manner. But it's brilliant that your thinking of getting one.
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I know what a house boat is lol... the name is self-explanatory even if i didnt know.
The point I was making is that the great lakes for example(where I live) have dropped multiple feet for water level.
| Quote: | | Water based ice does not affect water levels as ice displaces the same amount of water as it contains. But land based ice melting such as in Antarctica will cause water levels to rise. |
That's an interesting point. I'd have to ask the question... how much of that land actually will continue to be covered by water anyway... or will the continent itself actually become all land? Thusly water moving into the oceans and such?
| Quote: | | See the graph in my other post. |
Indeed I have seen those many times. As I have said. This is correlation and not causality. Not to mention there's a nasty %error on those. One ice core which wasnt that large covering a huge amount of time. It just isnt all there.
Furthermore if you look at the temperature change. The delta change moves from around 3celcius down to -9celcius. If the current human activity is only accounted to 0.6 celcus change. This is quite acceptable.
Furthermore this still doesnt link fossil fuels and such... but rather the huge population boom and the cutting down of many forests I suspect have quite the hand in the problems.
| Quote: | | Deforestation is a major problem granted. But to say that humans, cattle, chickens and JP breath and fart more greenhouse gases than cars produce is ridiculous. |
Actually not that ridiculous. If you run the numbers you find about same amount of correlation. Which is respectable but it cant be pushed ahead. Even if it turns out the huge population is at fault... it's not like we can go exterminate africa and the middle east to kill 2-3 billion people. Though that wouldnt be a bad idea 
| Quote: | | Your right in saying that cattle contribute to global warming but nowhere near as much as cars. |
It isnt just cattle. It's ALL animals including humans. There has also been a huge population boost in tons of different species. For example at the end of The Price of Right the old tymer Bob Barker used to tell you to spade and neutre your pets. There's tons of cats and dogs and other things. I would really love to see actual hard numbers on this.
| Quote: | | And humans even as a species produce very little CO2 on a global scale. |
Actually each person produces about 300kg of CO2 every year.
A car roughly burns 200gram per km. BUT that really isnt much of a constant effect unless you look at the very large scale. Unlike hooomans who unfortunately have to keep breathing all the time. There's also a tonfuck more people then cars which run. I know many people who dont even have cars or if they even have them use them so infrequently that it's meaningless.
Does the average person drive 1500km per year? Probably more... but when you look at the 1billion poor people in africa... they arent driving... so the reverse occurs.
Plus the point is that hoomans arent necessarily that large. The huge increased amount of cows and chickens and such for our food which has been increased with the population. Also produces lots of CO2.
| Quote: | | And with the electric car, it's only green if the energy to power it is produces in an eco-friendly manner. But it's brilliant that your thinking of getting one. |
I live in the great lakes area. So Niagra falls pretty much powers the area. There are also 5 nuclear power plants around. They are also building wind farms and such also. Which interestingly enough are pretty good stuff.
My electricity in other words has been quite green for a long time now.
Also I know global warming is real. CO2 relationship to it... isnt real enough. Just a correlation.
That doesnt mean anything though. The reasons to go green and get an all electric car is there entirely. You will likely be able to get 250km on a charge. Which is tons for me if I'm just driving around the city... everynight I can go home and recharge. Which is super cheap compared to oil/gas prices. You win just because of price value. If I need to go to say Toronto which is 400km away... I can take a plane. Which planes will be capable of going green also. Boeing I do believe is designing their green passenger plane. I am personally debating if I should take some of my money and build an all electric plane which can carry 2 and cargo or 4 people with no luggage. Then the plane can fly nutty distances and recharge on the ground in the hangar.
The best part of the electric plane is that people who live near airports will no longer have some crazy loud engines. Which is the number 1 problem with airports is noise problems.
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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