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Jesus name; Important because it made "YHWH" void
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Wickedtruth
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Jesus name; Important because it made "YHWH" v Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

isixylixsis wrote:

Where do facts come from?



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Moloth
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Jesus name; Important because it made "YHWH" v Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

isixylixsis wrote:
So we all rely on axioms, which are statements that we agree are true, since otherwise we would forever be validating the truth of a thing.


"checking the truth values of things is something you must do ALL of the time or NONE of the time."

can you see the fallacy there?
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total
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kmisho
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

wherever facts come from, they do not come from logic.

axioms are very useful, but they are simply semantic constructions designed to be consistent. The problems come in when we attempt to apply axioms to the phenomenal world. If anything, science has shown us that no statements about the content of reality can be considered true in the axiomatic sense.

Science is the attempt, the ATTEMPT, to apply logic to nature, but whether this actually works on anything more than a short-term basis is an open question.

Science does not provide truth. Thinking it does is an error on the order of attempting to prove the validity of an axiom.

Many religious people think this works in their favor, but it actually undermines ANY physical truth claim they wish to make. In short, it makes brains in vats of us all, including them and their god.

If a believer wants to argue that I am just as clueless as he is, I'll agree that from his own perspective this makes sense. Otherwise, he is as free as I to attempt to apply reason to observation in the hopes that it is not in the long run an entirely fruitless venture, which it may be. But what he nor anyone can do is tell what is real as a derivative of what is true.
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