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Mr_C
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 Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | So rather than be accused of cherry picking why don't you give me one ignored messianic prophesy and I will respond to it. |
| Mr_C wrote: |
Rather than do that, why not just take an honest look at this: |
| romans120 wrote: |
I read the article which prophesy would like me to respond to? |
The point is that you have to apologize for ALL of them because Jesus fits NONE of them.
When taken as a whole, the Jewish messianic prophecies describe someone utterly different than Jesus was supposed to be.
If you find yourself attempting to reconcile/explain every single attribute of a Jewish Messiah to the Christian one, what does that tell you about your bias?
Why don't you just tell me which, if any, of these attributes/prophecies that Jesus actually fits. |
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Raskolnikov
The Axe Murderer
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 1707
Local time: 7:36 PM
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | I fully admit I didn't fully deal with the Messianic prophesy question. I don't do well with long lists and I am not able to spend the time to study the whole list of texts that are supposed to represent all the "ignored" messianic prophesies. So rather than be accused of cherry picking why don't you give me one ignored messianic prophesy and I will respond to it.
Rather than do that, why not just take an honest look at this:
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A priest lurking over at IG forums posted this response to your website Mr_C: http://bibledoor.no-ip.org/pdf/eng_whyjewsdontbelieve.pdf
I'm going to be looking over it for a couple days. So far from what I have skimmed he just keeps reaffirming the fact that "Yes although Jesus fulfilled NONE of the prophecies that doesnt mean he wasn't the prophet."
_________________
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
-Dr. Emmett Brown |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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wow... that was one heck of a debate. O_O
well done, all around!
this is going to be something i refer back to multiple times, i can tell already.
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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caseagainstfaith
God's gift to atheism
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
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Location: Houston, TX USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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It seemed to me that Roman's heart kinda left the debate, that he seemed to see that he was getting owned. And his responses petered out.
But, I clearly enjoyed Mr. C's part of the debate. He really kicks ass.
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Please visit my site at www.caseagainstfaith.com featuring critiques of Lee Strobel and other apologetics
Check out my InfidelGuy interviews, tapes 117 and 269 |
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Mr_C
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Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | wow... that was one heck of a debate. O_O
well done, all around!
this is going to be something i refer back to multiple times, i can tell already. |
Thanks, Moloth!
I feel like the outcome was fairly one-sided. Do you guys have the same feeling?
Also, any constructive criticism is most certainly welcome. This was my first debate, so I certainly understand if any of you think you could have done better. |
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| caseagainstfaith wrote: | It seemed to me that Roman's heart kinda left the debate, that he seemed to see that he was getting owned. And his responses petered out.
But, I clearly enjoyed Mr. C's part of the debate. He really kicks ass. |
That means a lot coming from the kicker of Strobel ass  Thanks, man! |
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4269
Local time: 9:36 PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It seemed to me that Roman's heart kinda left the debate, that he seemed to see that he was getting owned. And his responses petered out. |
ya I saw this too.
| Quote: | | Romans120 will have to live for the rest of his life knowing that all he has is faith, and that there is actually no evidence for his claim. |
Which is awesome. He is clearly closed minded and wont change his beliefs despite such evidence against. Which is by definition delusional mental illness; aka The God Delusion.
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Creationism is not the alternative to Evolution - ignorance is." Ironically creationism is ignorance. |
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romans120
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | wow... that was one heck of a debate. O_O
well done, all around!
this is going to be something i refer back to multiple times, i can tell already. |
Thanks Moloth
_________________
The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Moloth
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romans120
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | romans, do you have any "post game" thoughts? |
I ran a good game we had some complications after the half. You know I have always had a lot of respect for Mr._C and he executed well and in the end came out on top but we can put this one behind us and be prepared for the next game. And still look forward to a good season.
_________________
The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 21265
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | romans, do you have any "post game" thoughts? |
I ran a good game we had some complications after the half. You know I have always had a lot of respect for Mr._C and he executed well and in the end came out on top but we can put this one behind us and be prepared for the next game. And still look forward to a good season. |
LOL... you bastard... lol.. 
i'm serious, you dweeb.. 
do you feel/think any differently about the topic? I know you learned some new things, but do they effect you at all?
no, i'm not expecting you to break down into tears and say "UR SO RITE!!1!1! WUT WUZ I THINKN??/?"...
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
www.twitter.com/Moloth
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www.last.fm/user/moloth
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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romans120
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | romans, do you have any "post game" thoughts? |
I ran a good game we had some complications after the half. You know I have always had a lot of respect for Mr._C and he executed well and in the end came out on top but we can put this one behind us and be prepared for the next game. And still look forward to a good season. |
LOL... you bastard... lol..
i'm serious, you dweeb..
do you feel/think any differently about the topic? I know you learned some new things, but do they effect you at all?
no, i'm not expecting you to break down into tears and say "UR SO RITE!!1!1! WUT WUZ I THINKN??/?"... |
Ok fine!!! I just plain got out researched. I want to go back over Mr._C's arguments and initiate threads to look deeper into them because I feel that we really on scratched the surface of the issue. As for learning things I learned a lot of details of mystic religions I didn't know before and I've realized an early dating of the gospels is really important for my position so that is something I'm going to educate myself about, but over all I can't say my position was swayed however I am far less incredulous toward those that hold mythical Jesus position.
_________________
The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Raskolnikov
The Axe Murderer
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 1707
Local time: 7:36 PM
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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It was a VERY good debate. Pritty much every noobie who comes on this site now I refer them to the Burden of Proof post and the Jesus: Man or legend post.
I look forward to more debates.
_________________
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
-Dr. Emmett Brown |
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4269
Local time: 9:36 PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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[Romans to english translation]
| Quote: | | Ok fine!!! I just plain got out researched. |
Ok fine!!! I just plain got out facted.
| Quote: | | I want to go back over Mr._C's arguments and initiate threads to look deeper into them because I feel that we really on scratched the surface of the issue. |
I want to go back over Mr._C's arguments and initiate threads to spread the facts apart to see if when they stand alone they might be weaker; I feel that my ignorance of subject needs to stay that way because I love Jeeeezus.
| Quote: | | As for learning things I learned a lot of details of mystic religions I didn't know before and I've realized an early dating of the gospels is really important for my position so that is something I'm going to educate myself about, |
I was ignorant of everything related to how my religion was even started... I discovered that my belief that they wrote about Jeeeezus during he was alive.. but actually 30+ years after his apparent death.. which considering people lived 30-40 years only in that time... add on top of that... these guys were considered more like enemies of the state. So basically by the time they were actually writing that he was historical... it was literally impossible that any of those people actually had a clue what they were talking about and were completely lying guarenteed.
| Quote: | | but over all I can't say my position was swayed however I am far less incredulous toward those that hold mythical Jesus position. |
Despite all the evidence against me and not a shred of evidence for my own beliefs. I understand I'm delusionally closed minded.
/Romans to english translation]
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Creationism is not the alternative to Evolution - ignorance is." Ironically creationism is ignorance. |
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Raskolnikov
The Axe Murderer
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 1707
Local time: 7:36 PM
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ouch munky ;P
_________________
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, underwhich weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, for if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The future is not set in stone. The future is what you make it. So make it a good one!"
-Dr. Emmett Brown |
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