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wandering soul
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 Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: Is There an Unmoved Mover? |
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I am an agnostic atheist. I don't deny that there could be some sort of force or something, but I don't know of any gods to believe in, as I don't have enough evidence or knowledge to really be convinced.
But what about the theory of the unmoved mover? What caused the outward motion of the big bang? Some force had to act on it for it to expand outward, and the original mover must have been able to move on its own.
Many would answer God, kind of like a fill in the blank question. But I wasn't present at the Big Bang, so I cannot be sure that I am not overlooking something.
Any ideas, opinions, theories?
James |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Advice:
DON'T fill in the blank at all. Its perfectly okay to NOT have an answer for something. If someone asks you "oh, yeah? well what started the Big Bang??" you answer "I don;t know... but neither do you.. NOR does anyone else".
Filling in gaps in knowledge, without proper evidence, is a dangerous habit.. it can lead to all sorts of illogical, unreasonable conclusions.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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SpecterOpacus
Divine Intervention saves raids.
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly right, they would say God.
Just as the Greeks didn't know what caused lightning, so they filled in Zeus.
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infidelmike
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SpecterOpacus
Divine Intervention saves raids.
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I always knew that Bill Nye was God.
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"Of the voluntary acts of every man the object is some good to himself." -Thomas Hobbs
"Those who are obsessed with practice, but have no science, are like a pilot out with no tiller or compass..." -Leonardo da Vinci |
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Gerard
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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If the mover didn't need to be moved himself why can't the same thing be said about what the mover moved?
something like that.....
Gerard
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The Historical Atlas of Europe
But as man exists in nature, I am not authorized to say that his formation, is above the power of nature.
Paul Henri Thiry Baron d' Holbach, (1723-1789)
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Moloth
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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i think i may have a very movable bowel movement in honor of this thread.
ew.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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fjord_byron
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Is There an Unmoved Mover? |
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| wandering soul wrote: | I am an agnostic atheist. I don't deny that there could be some sort of force or something, but I don't know of any gods to believe in, as I don't have enough evidence or knowledge to really be convinced.
But what about the theory of the unmoved mover? What caused the outward motion of the big bang? Some force had to act on it for it to expand outward, and the original mover must have been able to move on its own.
Many would answer God, kind of like a fill in the blank question. But I wasn't present at the Big Bang, so I cannot be sure that I am not overlooking something.
Any ideas, opinions, theories?
James |
I don't know what caused the big bang. I don't know if there even was a big bang, and neither does anyone else. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying (perhaps to themselves) or trying to sell you something.
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Namaste,
CET 
The Spiritual Atheist
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CET
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anamoly
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | Filling in gaps in knowledge, without proper evidence, is a dangerous habit.. it can lead to all sorts of illogical, unreasonable conclusions. |
proper evidence means what exactly? Lack of? Flawed results? So to fill in the blank and make assumptions based on no evidence is illogical or unreasonable? Or on evidence that cannot be tested or the results not replicated?
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tonyman1989
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Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Is There an Unmoved Mover? |
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| wandering soul wrote: | I am an agnostic atheist. I don't deny that there could be some sort of force or something, but I don't know of any gods to believe in, as I don't have enough evidence or knowledge to really be convinced.
But what about the theory of the unmoved mover? What caused the outward motion of the big bang? Some force had to act on it for it to expand outward, and the original mover must have been able to move on its own.
Many would answer God, kind of like a fill in the blank question. But I wasn't present at the Big Bang, so I cannot be sure that I am not overlooking something.
Any ideas, opinions, theories?
James |
I say nothing true untill proven. so feel free not to worship a god of gaps.
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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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Gerard
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| anamoly wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | Filling in gaps in knowledge, without proper evidence, is a dangerous habit.. it can lead to all sorts of illogical, unreasonable conclusions. |
proper evidence means what exactly? Lack of? Flawed results? So to fill in the blank and make assumptions based on no evidence is illogical or unreasonable? Or on evidence that cannot be tested or the results not replicated? |
Filling in the gaps without proper evidence can be of use in some sense. As long as you realise it's all speculation.
Gerard
_________________
The Historical Atlas of Europe
But as man exists in nature, I am not authorized to say that his formation, is above the power of nature.
Paul Henri Thiry Baron d' Holbach, (1723-1789)
Not collecting stamps is my hobby.
Gerard, (1962-*) |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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right-o, Gerard... its okay to say "I THINK this is what's going on, but i'm not SURE"...
Theists tend to say "Well, we can't prove it but we KNOW what we say is the TRUTH."
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Gerard
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: mustisms |
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| Moloth wrote: | right-o, Gerard... its okay to say "I THINK this is what's going on, but i'm not SURE"...
Theists tend to say "Well, we can't prove it but we KNOW what we say is the TRUTH." |
There also are always people who insist on being able to prove something about matters like this by claiming that because of this or that we MUST conclude that so and so. I call arguments like that MUSTisms. Introducing an unproven but possible alternative is a very usefull tool to refute those arguments.
Gerard
_________________
The Historical Atlas of Europe
But as man exists in nature, I am not authorized to say that his formation, is above the power of nature.
Paul Henri Thiry Baron d' Holbach, (1723-1789)
Not collecting stamps is my hobby.
Gerard, (1962-*)
Last edited by Gerard on Fri May 18, 2007 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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